keep it original v. improve it

[TomFromStLouis]

New member here. First post in the Healey forum, where I expect to wear out my welcome over the next few months.

I am currently shopping for a BJ8 and the market for them is all over the price range. My goal is a "beautiful driver", meaning I do not have a Barrett Jackson budget but want to enjoy looking at it from 5 or ten feet away. As I sift through the cars available, I am thinking it might be nice to have a list of "wanted features" so I can factor in any changes I would need to make to bring a cheaper driver up to this standard. So naturally the question of originality pops up.

For perspective, this will be my first LBC and I am no mechanic.

My priorities go something like this: first comes safety. Nobody seems to question adding seat belts and 3 point restraint makes sense to me. If I cannot adapt my lead foot driving style, brake mods appeal to me, even if I only need them once. But already we are veering way away from concours standards. That's okay, since my enjoyment will be driving not showing. Still, where do you draw the line and how can I figure out where on the spectrum I will fall?

Just after safety mods comes ease of use and maintenance; a screw on oil filter seems a no brainer idea. But what about the generator/alternator, or similar affordable and common changes?

Then we have performance. Clearly you can drop big money and radically alter the factory car for the better. For a non-racer, what would you say are the obvious first steps in this category?

The last category is aesthetic changes and the only ones that strikes me as an improvement is fresh paint and wire wheels. I suppose a non-factory color (say, a variation of Colorado Red) or a color not listed on the Heritage Certificate would bother some people, but not me.

Anyhow, I'd be interested in people's thoughts on deciding these things, in general or within a specific area like safety, ease of use, performance or aesthetics. I am inclined to hold off demanding most mods until I get a car and experience it awhile, but I am trying to influence how much car I should pay for now; I have heard multiple times that it is best to buy the best car you can afford since restoration always co$t$.

And I am sorry if this subject has been beaten around alot before, but my efforts to read the archives (starting at page 160+!) are progressing slowly.

 

[Bob McElwee]

Hi Tom, welcome to the forum. I'd like to invite you to the next meeting of the Gateway Healey Club on Tuesday, August 28th. I've PM'd you with the particulars.
I'm sure the members, BCF and Gateway, will have many opinions on your questions. Although my car is far, far from concours, for some strange reason I think color should match the Heritage Certificate.
Again welcome to the forum and I'm sure you will enjoy it.

 

[glemon]

As you guessed opinions are all over the map on such things, generally speaking the modifications you are talking about will decrease the value of the car, but if you want to buy it that way then maybe that means you get a better deal.

Although these all don't match your list some common modifications are pertronix or other electronic ignition, Toyota five speed tranny conversion, as you noted a spin on oil filter, I like grose jets to keep the carbs from leaking.

Don't know about common brake modifications, I am sure they can be upgraded, but certainly some work involved, I think some have added rear discs.

As far as engine mods to go faster, the usual stuff works, if you really don't car about originality there are a lot of v-8 powered cars out there, some or real dog butcher jobs, some are nice cars well done, and look fairly stock from outside. They would generally be less than a well restored or orginal car, and would already have many of the mods you are talking about. But maybe you don't want to go that far?

 

[Randy_Gay]

My vote on a BJ8:

Brakes are pretty good as is. Rebuild them stock with high performance pads and you'd be fine. Some guys convert to a dual master setup but that's a lotta work. Engine is strong out of the box and modifying it is really expensive. Just make it run like new and it'll be fine. Same with the steering and suspension. Lots of guys modify cars that would be fine with a quality rebuild. Do the seatbelts, do the alternator conversion if you want. Unless you are going to race I'd stay fairly stock. I don't have anything against the modified cars (I have one) but at the end of the day you'll ask why, especially on a nice late model car. Anyway, my $.02 worth.

 

[nevets]

Standard advice is to buy the best car you can possibly afford; one that is well maintained, in good mechanical order and with a minimum of tin worm...have it checked out by someone who knows Healeys before you buy. That will be your best first step towards your goal of owning a good-looking, safe driver. Also check out the price guides, talk to owners, and scout the classifieds to see that what you are paying is reasonable. You should be able to get what you want. As for performance mods...be prepared to spend a bit. Personally, I would only consider performance enhancements as part of a major engine overhaul. Can't see the sense of pulling that mountain of a motor and tearing it all apart just to knock a couple of seconds off the 0-60 time, but that's just me. Good luck with your quest!

 

[Randy Forbes]

A little input from (purist) public enemy No.1...

When I embarked on rebuilding my car back in the late 80s, I was bent on sprint-type competition events and perhaps vintage racing.

Funny how your priorities change as the years pile on!

With the exception of having to go back to the bare chassis to return to an original paint color, all the hotrod modifications I've done can be reversed.

In your case, there are bolt-on brake upgrades available (drilled and/or slotted rotors, high performance pads and even caliper upgrades).

Lots of options to squeeze more power from the engine, from a little to a lot.

My advice to you, and you seem to be on the right track already; is to get the car and feel it out as it is. Then as you need/want to add your own touches, stick to those that are reversible so you don't suck the value out of the car.

While I'll never get the money out of the car I've spent on my performance mods, I shouldn't have any trouble getting back several times the original purchase price ($4200.00 in April 1978).

Welcome to the board; lots of valuable information to be had for the new owners.

 

[TomFromStLouis]

I appreciate the time taken to give such thoughtful replies. They make me think I may be over analysing some of these things, but that is partly ignorance. I've always been a dealer-service kind of guy, but I can see that will be changing. Need to get a couple books!

I see myself moving towards an "older restoration" class and I realize I need to ask what that means to the seller. I wonder how hard would it be to bribe a club member (I've joined) that is closer to an auction car to visit it and report. Guess that's what the directory is for. Ha! What if I end up calling the seller's best friend?!

Here's my Probably Need list:

Safety: maybe move from lap belts to 3 point system. Convert rear reflectors into brake lights (wasn't there an old article about this?). Top notch brake pads. Isn't there a steering column change to keep from becoming skewered?

Ease of use: Open to ideas here. I'll ask the local club guys about alternator and electronic ignition.

Performance: Wait and see about any of these.

Aesthetics: I really want it to be pink.... Elvis Cadillac pink..... Kidding!

 

[AUSMHLY]

Hi Tom,
Welcome to BCF.
Your asking all the right questions.
Here's one to think about. Why are you interested in a Healey? For the looks, the way it drives, because you like to tinker, as your car will always let you know when she is runnning good and when she wants your attention somewhere.

When you start changing things like putting a V8 in, you have changed the true Healey experience. The sound, the tork, the power. Same goes for changing the transmittion. It will shift different and again, not the true Healey experience.

However you go, get the best car you can afford. Do some research to what has been done, by who and when it was done. Best to have the work done by folks who restore Healeys vs some shop that learned along the way.

Once you think you found your car, have a qualified Healey person look it over for you. The more you find out, the more you'll be driving.

My car is very close to stock. What I did:
Electronic fuel pump
Replaced points in dist with Pertronix
Spin on oil filter
Seat belts
Fused more of the car
Halogen headlights
Rear reflector to brake/turn light
More heat sheilding to floor and trans tunnel
Spare parts, manual and cell phone with me.
Having a good Healey mechanic.

I wanted a Healy that looks stock, rides and sounds like a Healey, yet has some parts exchanged to more relieable, modern design. Even better it you can not see the changes. (fuel pump, pertonix, heat sheild, reflector change)

That being said, changing the color is a personal choice, being your not going concours. Go Elvis Pink! Actually a pink and black one was made, so there ya go. A factory color.

Upgrading brakes, sure. Go disc in the back if you want, or slotted. Maybe just better pads. I still go with if you can't really see the change, because their sort of hidden behind the spokes, then why not. Oh maybe you meant bigger breaks (larger) that will handle the dubs. Dubs on a Healey, now that's just wrong. Ouch.

My two cents.
Best of luck and keep up posted.
Cheers, Roger

 

[Randy_Gay]

Have you joined the national and / or regional clubs? The monthly magazines we get have a good selection of cars, and I'd rather buy from an enthusiast than ebay or an auction.

 

[TomFromStLouis]

Randy,

I joined the clubs and am getting to know the local Healeyists.

Roger,

Thanks for your response. I think it reflects the philosophy I am headed towards. I have no interest in a V8 Healey and I like the changes you have made.

 

[Ed_K]

That is excellent advice from Randy. If I had to purchase a
Healey, I would first try to buy one from fellow enthusiasts in the back of the club magazines. The prices seem reasonable when compared to ebay plus I would tend to trust a fellow enthusiast that cared enough to join one of the national clubs .
Ed

 

[MarkA]

Yep...

Most of the ebay'ers are just turning a quick profit on something they picked up at an auction or by some other means. That doesn't mean that all ebay'ers are this way. But, the majority are there to make some money! The club mags are "owners" selling their cars...

Mark

 

[YankeeTR]

At the risk of butting in from the Triumph forum...

I've been around sports cars and hot rods all of my life...since the 50's. One of the true joys of owning a classic British sports car is enjoying all of the cars quirks. Drum brakes, wire wheels, sidescreens, oil/water leaks, SU carbs and on and on.

You will learn to actually work on your car...and enjoy it! The car will become part of you...and, like a good marriage, you should learn to tolerate the litte things your wife does to annoy you...you learn to put up with certain things in a marriage...and also when you own one of these cars.

I have learned to hate the word "upgrade". No part can be an upgrade when it detracts from the overall Briitish car experience. Especially when the "upgrade" results in a non stock auto that is actually worth less on the market. The original owners of these cars drove them year-round in all weather conditions. They put up with poor dealer service, worse parts support and still drove them because they loved the total experience.

I have nothing against modified cars...but you must admit your car is modified (or hot rodded) not simply "upgraded". Using my least favorite word, my '56 Ford F100 with the blown Hemi, four speed, MOPAR rear axle and torsion bar suspension is "upgraded". Other "upgrades" include a 6" top chop and a 14" shorter wheelbase.

If you want razor sharp handling, superior brakes and other modern modifications you should really stick with a modern car. Or buy a Healey look a like kit car with a Chevy V-8 and such.

The best thing you can do is to join a local club, find a few folks who will let you ride along and maybe even drive their cars. Learn if you really want to own a Healey by actually experienciing the car. These vehicles are more than just pretty...they have personality...and sometimes it's just a shame to try to make a car fit your idea of what a good car should be rather than just enjoying what others designed and built for true enthusiasts.

Sorry for the rant...now back to my cave.

 

[TomFromStLouis]

No need to apologize for a well stated quality rant Yankee. I asked for opinions and just wish you hadn't held back so much. ;-)

Tom
wondering what mods he'd make to his wife

 

[TomFromStLouis]

Hi Tom,
.... Why are you interested in a Healey? For the looks, the way it drives, because you like to tinker, as your car will always let you know when she is runnning good and when she wants your attention somewhere.....
Cheers, Roger

Forgot to answer this one. My father-in-law had a few cars, including a Healey and an E-type. Of all those he owned, he misses the Healey the most. So I started looking and fell for the lines. And then the sound. I will get pleasure from just seeing it in the driveway, and the idea of zipping around in one with my smiling wife is all I'll ever need.

Perhaps more than you wanted, but it is as good a story as any I guess.

 

[Keoke]

Yep...

Most of the ebay'ers are just turning a quick profit on something they picked up at an auction or by some other means. That doesn't mean that all ebay'ers are this way. But, the majority are there to make some money! The club mags are "owners" selling their cars...

Mark

Do you mean there is a difference!---Keoke- /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

 

[kcbugeye1275]

I agree with YankeeTR, join a club locally. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience that they will be happy to share for you to form your own opiniun and will enjoy helping you look for the car which will suit your needs and or wants. In KC, the Heally club has a new member who has just done the same thing, with the purchase of a 3000 that is a really nice car, he has been a member for 6-8 months. At first, your car might be a little intimadated, but as time goes on you'll find that you can and will do more things to it yourself. It is part of the fun. Finally, welcome to the forum, there is a wealth of knowledge and a community of people who will help in any way possible.

 

[nevets]

Yankee TR, I'm with you.

 

[bighly]

It is your car, do as you wish.

 

[AUSMHLY]

OK guys,
I'm going to challenge Yankee's "upgrade".

Let's see if I can get around the word "upgrade" by using "downgrade"

Let's downgrade the amount of heat in the footwells.

Example, you actually want to drive your car, alot, like I do, everyday. It's summer, it's hot. We all know the foot wells get hot. Expecially the drivers.

When new Healey used 60 pound tar paper and jute under the rug. Under the car, sheets of asbestos.

Now we have better products than tar paper and jute to replace it with. So why not? It will not be seen and it really helps lower the heat.

I guess if your a purest, you want to feel the heat as they did back in the days. Plus, the passenger foot well is the perfect place to put the pizza box to keep it hot till you get home.

Don't get me wrong, Yankee, your spot-on with keeping the car's experience intact. Some experiences can be "upgraded". Wow my wife says, my feet aren't hot. She's happy, your happy.
OK guys, line up, let me have it.
You too Yankee!
Cheers, Roger