Bugatti Mystery

[Steve]

This is interesting, the request was sent to me by my father, a retired mechanical engineer. He knows that there are a couple of Bugatti enthusiasts on the BCF and wondered if anyone had some insight. Details are below.

"--Hi Steve,
This was sent to me by John Drewett from one of his contacts in Oz as a link to photographs showing what is probably a Bugatti forgery as the engine is far too big. Do you think any of your British Car contacts have an opinion?

Da"


This is a very interesting little mystery

A Fake Bugatti Empereur engine was Russian Tank Engine design !

Or its an Hispano !

Very sophisticated diesel .

Nice stuff

Ward
--------------
FROM TECHNICAL BLOG

In an earlier report it was noted that the engine was a Czech AVIA V30. However,
I now get a report from Ad Meeuwesen in the Netherlands, stating that the engine
is in fact a Russian Transmash V84 or 3D12. This is a 38.88liter V-12 diesel
engine, used mainly to power Russian tank's. Compare the photographs below, on
the left the Empereur's engine cylinder head, on the right the Transmash. Quite
convincing in fact. This engine is nowadays used often in tractorpulling because these engines,
using a few turbo's, can be easily upgraded from the standard 7-800hp to 1800hp
on diesel fuel. A rebuild to use methanol will probably lead to even more power, petrol is
probably also possible, and may have been an intended change for the Empereur
engine.

NOW See this wonderful confection !

https://www.bugattipage.com/empereur.htm

 

[DrEntropy]

My initial reaction was bouyed up by the last paragraph there:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]When I compare this car <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">and especially the finishing of the parts</span></span>, with the parts for the Bugatti 100P record Airplane, there's a huge difference, both <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">in detailed finish</span></span> as well as in the number of indications of all possible chassis and other identification numbers on almost each part, added with the inverted E -B logo.
I still have to be convinced that this is an original car. [/QUOTE]

But it's a HONKIN' GREAT BEASTIE in any event!!


Wow.

 

[Steve]

My personal opinion is that this is a fake, someone is going to a lot of trouble. The potential reward should someone beieve it to be genuine and buys it is enormous, though!

 

[aeronca65t]

Yeah, it's keen but I think it's a fake.

Bugatti really only liked fours and eights.

I do not believe he was ever interested in building V-12s.

The aero engine he designed was a V-16 (31.4 liters), but that was really two Royale engines on a common crank.

 

[coldplugs]

I haven't seen enough Bugatti engines apart to have an opinion. I'd try sending a letter to the curator of the Schlumpf museum and see what they say about it.

https://www.schlumpf-collection.com/collection-schlumpf-ang.html

 

[Roger]

Well, Bugatti designed and built another aero engine in WW1 that was 2 straight 8s in parallel with 2 cranks etc., long before the Royale.

Anyway, I don't believe the Empereur. I think someone may be trying a create a Bugatti - call it revisionist history if you like. The story has been around for a couple of years or so now.

 

[bgbassplyr]

No offense, but the machine work doesn't look up to Bugatti standards, at least as I remember it.

 

[Steve]

I rather got that impression, as well.

 

[Silverghost]

Fact or fiction, somebody dedicated MANY hours and dollars to this project. Call it an homage to Bugatti.

Quite interestingly, look what a Google search turned up:

Definitions of homage on the Web:

1)Homage (from the French: Hommage) is generally used in modern English to mean any public show of respect to someone to whom one feels indebted.

2)court: respectful deference; "pay court to the emperor".

It surely is no coincidence the car is referred to as a Bugatti Empereur!

Could it be that this is not a "fake" but rather a tribute to Bugatti OR a prototype not built officially by Bugatti but rather by some of the engineers/designers/craftsmen as a proposal for a successor for the Royales? This COULD explain the similarities in manufacturing styles and techniques. Pure speculation on my part.

Ah, histories mysteries....gotta love them!!

 

[Roger]

Homage or tribute to Bugatti? This old cynic has seen and heard of too many fake cars sold for vast sums to believe that. Just look at Vintage Bentleys and Maserati 250F GP cars.

 

[William]

Well, the majority of Bugattis I've seen have very little badging on them-usually just chassis numbers stamped on. Personally, I'd have tried to come up with a new name, or engraved the "Empereur" logo into stuff.

-Wm.