TR4/4A HELP not able to get my TR4 started

Ok, having something strange going on. I can't seem to get my TR4 to start, here is the behavior.

About a week ago I went out to start it and turned the key and it made a few turns and then died, so I was thinking that the battery was dead. I went to get the jumper cables and decided to give it one more try before I hooked them up, started right up. Drove it a few places, would start up. Then stalled on a hill, turned the key, only got that one click sound. Rolled it off and drove straight to the parts store where they tested the battery and said it was dead, and sold me a new one. Started right up no problem with new battery and has for a week.

Today, drove to work, went out at lunch, nothing, just the one click of I guess the solenoid when I turn the key. I rolled it off, ran fine to get lunch. Rolled it off again after lunch, but as I got back to the office I noticed it was missing badly, running rough AND the engine temp was way down, near 30. Barely got it back in the deck and turned it off. Turned the key, nothing.

I'm skeptical that the alternator is bad as up until an hour ago, was running, and I'd be surprised if it was just off the battery. I have not tried to roll it off again, to see if it will start, but maybe starter or solenoid is bad?

Sounds like some diagnostics are in order.

A V.O.M. is really necessary here.

Charge the battery, get it running and test the alternator output. Battery voltage should be 12.5V with nothing connected. Running, the voltage at the battery terminals SHOULD be around 13.5~14V. Lower than that indicates a charging problem. I wouldn't jump at the starter or solenoid until the alternator is checked from what you describe. Sounds like it WAS running off the battery only.

Well - they will run off the battery for longer than you might think. If the alternator isn't charging the battery it will run for a while and then die.

Have you tried charging the battery and seeing it starts again?

If the alternator is good and charging properly - and you'll need to get it running to see if that is the case.

I don't believe that starter or starter solenoid will impact how the car runs once it is in fact running.

Keep us posted Doug.


DARN - BEATEN BY DOC YET AGAIN....

And I ain't even on line!! :wink:

Sure sounds like charging system problems to me. You can go an amazing amount of time on just the battery (or on an alternator that works a little bit). The running rough and temp gauge way down sound like symptoms of very low system voltage, meaning the battery had finally run down that far.

My suggestion would be to get something so you can monitor the charging system; either install a voltmeter or rewire your alternator installation so the original ammeter is functional. Or even just a hand-held DMM (under $10 from HF) will do for now (but I'd still want a dash gauge for the future).

Also check that all your battery cable connections are clean and tight. I had a somewhat similar problem on a Chevy once that turned out to be the connection from the frame to the engine was loose. It would spot-weld and work for a bit after starting the engine, then vibration would break it loose and the alternator would no longer charge the battery.

Bad battery connection

First, thanks everyone so much for the speedy write ins. I'm kind of stuck at work right now, a bad place to be stuck.

I failed to mention, that I did also replace the Pos battery terminal cable when I switched out the battery because the old one was looking pretty ragged and frayed. I'll take it off and make sure it's making a good connection to the frame as well.

I'm going to get a friend to charge it up via jumper cables for a while and see if it will turn over. I wish I had a Multimeter here, but don't of course.

Pull the negative terminal off the battery before ya hook up the jumper cables. :wink:

I've not heard of that before, granted this is the first time I have tried to jump it/charge it. Can you explain why?

If there *IS* an issue with the alternator, charging system or other drain on it, you'll be spinnin' yer wheels (so-to-speak) tryin' to charge it while it's all connected. Give it 15 minutes at an RPM just above idle on the other vehicle.

...and don't dawdle onna way home if it lights off. :wink:

Ah, I see, what you're saying. And I did have to run the head lights the last few days. Can't believe it would run as much as it did on the battery alone.

Check your ground first. Bad grounds are the root of many problems on these cars.

Dan B
S. Chas. WV
66 TR4A IRS EFI
80 TR7 DHC

I just spent about 15 minutes with the battery connected via jumpers to a friends car. Turned the key and it started right up, so I am thinking the alternator is not charging. Plus and please correct me here, the ammeter in the dash should show ~12 charging. The needle is hanging to the right on the negative side. Does that indicate a charging problem, I'm guessing yes. Are there further tests I could perform or just go ahead and change out the alternator?

Ok, so probably a dumb question, but the ground, being the positive, just goes straight to the body/frame. Do you have a suggestion as to how to test that?

Hmm, positive ground is original; but the original generator was not an alternator and positive ground alternators are scarce as hen's teeth. Has your car been modified with an alternator (AC generator) or not? I ask because some people doing the alternator modification hook it directly to the battery such that the ammeter no longer indicates whether it is charging or not.

If it's original, then the ammeter hanging to the left all the time does indicate a charging problem. Normally after starting it should swing sharply to the right "+" side, with the engine above idle (1500 rpm) then slowly settle towards the middle (with the headlights off). Very slightly to the left with the headlights on or with the engine idling is normal.

However, not charging is not necessarily the generator's fault. It is controlled by the control box on the firewall, so a problem with the control box or it's wiring could also be the issue.

What is the red light doing?

The red light has not turned on at all through the whole ordeal.

I have looked at the repair manual, but honestly, it's a bit beyond my skill at this point. I did read about the voltage regulator and the control box, so I am charging the battery now and will try and trouble shoot tomorrow.

As far as the alternator and if it's original, I'm not sure of that either. I'm going to try and contact the person that had it before me to see if they have any info on it's history.

For the short time I've had it, the ammeter has never gone to the left side, which is labeled +, I assume the charging side. And when I drove it tonight, I turned the lights on and it went far to the right, the negative side and stayed there.

So could be, Alternator, or Voltage Regulator at this point?
Anyone have a suggestion for how to narrow it down?

Doug - do you have a digital camera handy? Pictures always help....

sure, should I take a pic of the generator(or maybe it's an alternator)? I do know for a fact, everything is still positive ground. I'll go snap pics now if you let me know what to take a picture of.

Does it look more like (generator)


or more like (alternator)?

ok, I went ahead and attached some pics. So is this an alternator or generator?