vehicle numbers ?

[mtlman8]

curious about what tags mean what... where is the vin. stamped? what is that tag# on the passenger side next to the battery? what is that tag# between the wiper motor and master cylinders? ect...ect...

 

[Geo Hahn]

These comments are for a TR4 though perhaps a TR4A is similar...

The number most vehicles are registered with is the commission number, found on the black & aluminum plate over by the master cylinders. The number will end with an 'L' for left hand drive cars and additionally an 'O' if the car was originally equipped with overdrive. That plate may also indicate interior color code and paint code.

There is no modern VIN on these cars.

Over on the passenger side there is a plate showing the body number -- close too but rarely identical to the digits in the commission number.

There may or may not be a STC plate indicating the model year of the vehicle.

The one other number often referenced is the engine number, stamped on a boss by the coil. Like the body number, its digits are likely near to but not identical to the commission number. When I say 'near' I mean within a few hundred though the difference can be much more (several thousand) and still be correct.

 

[mtlman8]

Its a 1967 tr4a... thanks so much. would love to learn more about this, as it's very interesting and perhaps important.

 

[HerronScott]

You can check out some of that information here:

International TR Registry - TR4/4A information

and here:

Vintage Triumph Register - TR4A production information

and you can read a little here in Google's book preview:

Piggott Collector's Guide Commission Number information

You can also get a BMIHT certificate (British Motor Industry Heritage Trust) which will give you some factory production information on your car based on the commission number from the factory records.

Scott

 

[Geo Hahn]

...You can also get a BMIHT certificate (British Motor Industry Heritage Trust)...

Here's a friend to tell you how to order...

https://shop.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/shop/heritage-certificates/index.html

The build cert was very useful to me as my TR4 had a gap of about 8000 between the engine number and the commission number. Body number was close to engine number. Build records confirm it is all correct and as despatched though there is still an untold story as to how it came to be like that (though I have my suspicions).

 

[HerronScott]

Geo,

That is interesting since 8000 is a huge gap - 1/2 to 2/3 of a production year.

Scott

 

[mtlman8]

mine is off by 204.

 

[HerronScott]

mine is off by 204.

Note that they are not supposed to match so no need to worry about "matching" numbers. Typically the commission number, body number and engine are within a few hundred of each other.

Here are the commission, body and engine numbers for my cars for example which match the Heritage certificates.

1959 TR3A TS51339L EB49811 TS51386E

1966 TR4A CTC69123L 68668CT 69238E

1966 TR4A CTC72159LO 71922CT 72497E

Scott

 

[Geo Hahn]

...That is interesting since 8000 is a huge gap - 1/2 to 2/3 of a production year...

I suspect the car was built in early 1964 and issued a commission plate at that time... and then goodness knows what happened to it. Then it was re-commissioned in Sept 64 with a later commission number.

When I removed the commission plate there was a second set of holes about a 1/4" forward of the ones used to mount the present commission plate, suggesting that a prior plate had been drilled out.

Also, although the car only had 50K miles on it when I bought it and appeared very original, the cylinders were .040 oversized.

There is a story there, but I will likely never know it.

 

[HerronScott]

Especially interesting since the Heritage certificate confirms the numbers! So the engine number is 8000 earlier than the commission number? Is the body number also in line with the engine number or the commission number?

Scott

 

[Geo Hahn]

Okay, more like 7000 (I was working from memory):

Engine CT 29988 E
Body 29272 CT
Commission CT 36536 L

So I would guess the original commission number was 29xxx.

 

[HerronScott]

So the car was hanging around the factory for a number of months it sounds like?

Scott

 

[Geo Hahn]

My guess is that someone used the car for some purpose and did some bad thing to it -- later it went back to the factory for refittment or whatever you might call it and was then despatched as a new car. Would not be done in this day and age but such things were perhaps tolerated back when.