Slight wheel alignment problem

[bigjones]

OK folks,

The new Kumho tires are on. I can't believe the difference! The ole TR3 now feels like it is gripping the road instead of bouncing around. The old tires had plenty of trend left and looked just fine but were on the car when I bought it 10 years ago. However, with the recent thread about old tires I went ahead and replaced them. Wow! is all I can say. Thanks for putting me right.

You'll be proud of me _ while the car was up on 4 jack stands I done a full-on grease job all around, replaced the brake and clutch fluids, checked the rear brakes and resprayed the hubs.

I done the wheel alignment at home using the thumb tack/ tape measure procedure. It's now dead nuts on at 0 toe-in. However, the steering wheel is now at 10 clock, 4 clock instead of 9 clock 3 clock. Ha!

Apart from driving around looking like a dumbass, the self canceling signals don't seem to work anymore.

Twisting those tie rod tubes had me seriously cornfused. Took me a while to realise that twisting (any of the two)clockwise gave toe-in, counterclockwise gave toe-out. The nearest (jam?)nut could be undone by wrenching clockwise - the further nut is also undone clockwise.

As far as correcting the steering wheel by re-adjusting the tie-rods, well, I would guess that if I gave the driver side tie rod a turn for toe out and the passenger side a turn for toe-in that would move it in the right direction. Or what?

While I'm on the subject of tie rod adjustment - I suppose it is bad form to adjust them with the car on the ground. I've had the car on jack stands while I been doing the adjusting but they are readily accessible with the car on the ground. Just asking.

Cheers,
Adrian
TS58324

 

[Don Elliott]

Did you verify the length (7.68") of the tie rods as specified in the manual ? One you have these correct, your TR should track straight. If your steering wheel is not centered, you have to remove the control head and then the large nut holding the steering wheel to the column. Pull it off the splines, re-align the steering wheel where it should be and put it back together. Now your steering should be done.

As for the self cancelling, Craig Landrum released an excellent technical article in Jan. 2009 that explains it all. Maybe someone can find the link for you. I know that Craig is planning to up-date it and issue a newer and expanded version.

 

[DrEntropy]

Should have full load on it to do toe-in. On its feet, roll it back and forth to get the suspension "settled" before you start, too.

As for the steering wheel, ya want to shorten the length of the driver's side rod a turn and lengthen the passenger side the same, one turn at a time. The canceling nubbin for the signals will work again once you have it all lined up.

 

[Don Elliott]

If you make one tie rod longer and the other one shorter, you won't get even wear on those new tires. In 51 years on my 1958 TR3A, all I ever did was make sure that the dimension above was correct and then line up the steering wheel afterwards. In the last 18 years, I've driven 100,000 miles and the tire wear is even on both tires and all the way across each front tire. I got 43,000 miles on my Michelins till they were 10 years old. Then I got some cheap Kelly-Springfields thet lasted 4 years and for the last 3 years, I have Vredesteins.

You can adjust and get that dimension with the weight of the car on the floor or on jack stands. The easiest way is when the tie rods are on your work bench. You have space there and don't worry about the weight. It's the dimension that's important. I measure mine with a steel ruler with fine gradations. I measure from the center of one zert to the center of the zert at the other end of each tie rod. Then I make sure the locking nuts are tight and it's done.

 

[DrEntropy]

Don... to align the column properly (not the steering wheel) and have an even number of turns lock-to-lock, he HAS to ~even~ the rod lengths... that would entail shortening the left one and lengethening the right one an equal number of turns... (to achieve the 7.68" side-to-side, actually) ~ASSUMING~ the toe-in is set properly to begin with, all that lengthen/shorten drill does is get the steering gear centered: The wheel can be removed and lined up after the lock-to-lock center is established and toe-in set.

The 7.68" thing will have it track straight but may not line up the column and/or wheel as the thing sits now. Kinda depends on what's been messed with before the toe was set this time, too.

 

[TR3driver]

I agree, centering the wheel is not going to affect tire wear, as long as the toe winds up correct. And the 7.68" is just a starting point, they need to be corrected after that to both center the steering and set the toe. There was definitely some variation in the frames, etc. when new and even more now.

Adrian, I can never remember which is which, but the threads on either the inner or outer tie rod ends are left hand threads. So turning the tie rod in one direction, both threads screw out, and the other direction both threads screw in. But since the LH threads are swapped between left & right sides of the car, turning the tie rods the same direction (eg bottom to the rear) should cause one of them to get shorter (more toe-in) and the other to get longer (more toe-out).

Anyway, you've got the right idea; except backwards I think. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that when driving straight ahead, you are holding the wheel turned slightly to the right, yes? Or another way to put it, when you hold the wheel straight, the car turns left. That would mean that, to center the steering, the left wheel (drivers side in this case) need more toe-in; while the right wheel needs more toe-out.

I'm not so sanguine about that being the only problem with the turn signals, but I would certainly fix the steering first and then tackle the turn signals later.

I assume you know this, but JIC : toe-in needs to be measured with the wheels in the straight-ahead position. The measured toe-in will change if the wheels are turned, even slightly. As a result, I usually find that I need to reset it after making centering corrections (because the correction means I didn't have it straight before).

Oh yeah, no need to jack the car up to make adjustments; after all those tie rods have to move the wheels anyway. But you should take steps to 'settle' the suspension after each adjustment, before making any further measurements. Rolling the car back and forth will do, or I usually just bounce it up and down a few times.

 

[TruCraft]

Randall, the outers are "normal" RH and inner LH.
Will be adjusting mine on the jack stands to get it close.
Then it needs to have the suspension loaded for proper adjustment.
Will use the fishing line technique the Indy car techs use.
Like you said bonce the car to settle the suspension.
Will be close enough to drive on the street, for sure.
Lyle

 

[3798j]

I thought I found this alignment guide on this forum: https://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/amc/align.htm

The best tip was the use of masonite under the tires. It made adjusting toe with the suspension "loaded" very easy.

 

[TruCraft]

Still working on the front end alignment.
Checked my camber and one side checks about 1.5 degrees positive.
The other side checks about 0.
How do you adjust the camber?
Do I move the upper pivot bracket?
Shim the upper ball joint?
Lyle

 

[TR3driver]

How do you adjust the camber?

I'd say look for what is bent, broken or worn out; and fix it. The camber is supposed to be about 2 degrees, so your 0 degree side is off by over 5/16".