Routing Oil Cooler Lines

[RAC68]

Hi All,

A friend is installing an oil cooler in his 67 BJ8 P2 and would like some direction on how to route the lines and where to install the cooler radiator. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks
Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[stretchit2]

If you know anyone who has Norman Nock's book he provides a pretty good explanation and illustrations of his recommendation for installation. Basically, you mount it to the X-Frame mid to low in height relative to the radiator and simply route the lines back to the oil filter. The kit I had provided instructions.

 

[BoyRacer]

Why is your friend installing an oil cooler? Is he going racing? Installing an oil cooler adds a BIG restriction into the oil flow when the oil is cold....which is every time you start the car. He should be strongly advised to also install a temperature bypass unit.

 

[RAC68]

Stretchit2, thank you for your suggestion. He has re-cored his radiator with extra rows and is planning on mounting the cooler radiator exactly where suggested. He wants to keep the line runs as short as possible and thought appropriate to ask the question in case someone had a better idea.

Rich, this was a thought I presented to him but he seems to think a cooler will be advantageous. He is building his BJ8P2 as a parkway road car for runs on hot summer days back and forth to his Jersey Shore home. He is just completing a full car rebuild and replaced his trans and OD with a Toyota 5-speed and, although has a 3.54 rear installed, would love to have an even lower rear (i.e. 3.09) if he could find one. The cooler is in anticipation of hot weather 80 MPH driving intermixed with traffic-jam delays. He feels the cooler will help maintain a lower oil and engine temperature during his frequent runs. He has included a bypass within his initial plan but I will repeat your strong suggestion.

Thanks,
Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[Michael Oritt]

Ray--

With all due respect to your friend's thinking this sounds like a rather silly idea and before I went to all of the trouble to install an oil cooler in a road car I would ascertain what my oil temperature was when running at sustained highway speeds and see if it an OC is needed.

My experience with oil temps in my race cars (which do have oil coolers) is that they will rise perhaps 10 degrees when under WOT conditions but do not follow water temps, so if I am sitting on a grid waiting for a start the water temp may go up but the oil temp will remain at or near "normal". My point is that I do not think an oil cooler will help him in traffic jams when no air is passing over it and it will probably not be necessary when he is running at speed unless he is planning on driving at 110-120 mph in which case the NJHP will very likely soon become an effective cooling system.

BTW most of the oil cooler installations I have seen to Healeys put them well below the radiator with air reaching them via an oval hole cut in the front valance. This would probably entail bumper removal. Also tell your friend that if he fits an oil cooler he should also install an oil temperature gauge so he can see what is going on.

 

[RAC68]

Michael/Rich,

Wow, I will definitely transmit your thoughts to my friend. When not having the knowledge and/or the experience, it is really nice to be able to get advice from those that have both.

Thanks again guys, your input is very much appreciated.

Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[Michael Oritt]

Ray--

Also there is such a thing as overcooling the oil. Ideally oil should get up to a temperature where accumulated water is burned off. I don't know what that should be but I would think around 190 degrees or so. Oil coolers are cool looking but there are realities in play here.

BTW I have a Smitty's five-speed and 3.54 rear end in the 100 and at 70 mph I am turning 3000 rpm's. With a lower/taller rear end ratio your friend might find himself on the verge of lugging the car at 60-65 and would probably have to downshift in order to accelerate to make a pass.

 

[BN6_2197]

It is very interesting to follow this thread. My car was fitted with an oil cooler when I bought it. Initially it was fitted behind the pumper, by this having only little effect. I mounted it under the bumper and protcted it by a housing. My oil pressure is now a littel bit higher after remounting, i.e. 55psi at 3000 rpm when the engine is warm. My concerns are exactly the same as already mentioned before. Hence I am thinking also about installing an oil temperature gauge. Til now I have no idea how and where to install the sensor. But now I am thinking of removing the oil cooler.


Anyhow: can anyone advice on installing an oil temperature guage?


Volker

 

[andrea]

I have one oil Cooler on my car, on the spin oil there are a thermostatic valve, that avoid that when oil are cold the passage through the cooler,
I have find also a simple system to control the oil temperature by a Digital probe- easy to fit- https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/63c4INIddZ6SqP59JwjNTdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
in Italy summer can be very hot as California or Texas- so I have look after all cooling aspects -Radiator with increased heat exchanger- one electric fan thermo controlled, pushing- and Texas fan
Oil cooler and fans have one dedicated aluminium Air duct that increase the efficiency
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tvpHmF8onf1vbK8MCSdB9tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/p14OWaGdH0F79dOMVMblJNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tHeprIwS_Fq6Ua1Avi6IxdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1VioSa7DQbvJA3dntSOVVtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BFqfp0B6BtLZjlP5wVNrftMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FsaaNW6Rwz2TF8hO89-q6tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
and the TWO under body opening dedicated to oil cooler
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/mrclD4rgePQW2Bw7iU4NM9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
Results of all this efforts are good
water and oil temperature stay under 90°C - and also cockpit temperature stay at acceptable level

 

[RDKeysor]

Sorry to divert this conversation away from the oil cooler issues, but I was taken by the references to differential ratios on cars running Toyota 5 speeds. I have a Toyota in my '60 BN7, and I am a bit disappointed that the engine is turning right around 3000 rpm at an indicated 60 mph. I had a JT5 in my Jag MK2, and it was loafing at 2000 rpm at 60, which made cruising at higher speeds very comfortable. I have had my gear box exposed while doing some work on it and the car interior, and though I looked at oodles of Toyota boxes on a Toyota Web site, none was exactly like what a PO (twice removed) put in this car. There doesn't seem to be a way of identifying these Toyotas from the numbers visible on them, though there are names assigned for the various boxes. One of our club members recently installed a higher ratio rear end in his BJ8, and I understood that it was produced by someone in the Tampa area. My car is fun for driving around the area, but I would love to lower the rpms for long trips on busy highways. I would appreciate an informed opinion on the right lubricant for the Toyota boxes, as I have yet to change the oil in mine. I do like the transmission, but my memories of the standard Healey box date from the mid 1960s and are pretty dim.

 

[Michael Oritt]

Volker--

Go to Pegasusautoracing.com for an inline oil temperature sensor.

RDKeysor--

There are a number of Toyota 5-speed transmissions which do have different gear ratios. The one in my car is, I believe, a W57 or 58 which is the most commonly used and what the Smitty and his successor's conversion kit hooks up to.

Whatever Toyota box you have I must imagine that 5th in all of them is an overdrive, so your problem is almost certainly the rear end ratio in your car. In addition to the Toyota box I also have a 3.5 gear set which I got from Mike Lempert some years back. If you are only doing 60 at 3K you probably have the stock 3.9 ring and pinion.

As for gearbox lubricant, I use Redline MT 90 though the MTL would also work--it is just a bit lighter. Whatever you do be sure to use an oil that has a GL-4 rating which has less sulphur content and is thus compatible with yellow metals such as brass synchro rings. Do NOT to use a GL-5 oil which is made for differentials and "non-yellow metal" parts such as ring and pinion gears, etc. There is a big difference between what is often labelled "gear lube" and gearbox oil. Some gear lubes claim to be okay for both GL-4 and GL-5 applications but I am skeptical, and if in fact they are then they likely do not provide the "Extreme Pressure" protection which is necessary in a differential.

 

[BoyRacer]

Back to the oil cooler question ...... If you install an oil temp gauge, you put the sensor in the oil pan. You need to weld in a threaded "weld bung".

 

[andrea]

For my Digital probe weld aren't necessary - it must be simply pushed on the oil cooler fins,
it is in realty a Barbecue thermometer with a extensive range to 300°C and stainless steel protection on the probe wire- wire that is relatively short for this application, and on my car I must add (easy operation) one short starp of wire
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/pPVyQe4dLDIHINgtTmhRb9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
interesting it have also one adjustable alarm at MAX temperature a clock and a timer
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/b2otHq1qOU2_5XRd_eMe8dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hxV2TC6FG7HKUJXBbnH9pNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

 

[Michael Oritt]

Richard--

I have a OT probe in the pan on the Courier and a sensor at the oil filter on the MK IV. Frankly neither car is terribly prone to oil overheating--at most I see an increase of 10 or so degrees when REALLY on it--and I guess I am most concerned with relative versus absolute temperatures, but do you feel that measuring OT in the pan is more accurate or desirable and if so why?

 

[andrea]

I put the probe immediately under the feed pipe of the oil cooler -in this manner I hope to have the effective engine oil temperature- before the cooling

 

[BoyRacer]

Michael,
My oil temp sending unit is in my oil pan for a couple of reasons. First, every oil temp gauge I have ever purchased has had a pipe threaded sending unit. Secondly, I use the race proven DMD oil pans from Australia. They come with a weld bung for the oil drain plug and a weld bung for an oil temp sending unit. Thirdly, the oil pan is where the oil is after it has gone through the pump, through the filter and then through the oil cooler (or bypassed if it is too cold) then through the bearings...and also out of the rocker shaft and onto your valves springs. Remember, oil cools the valve springs. So, the temperature of your oil in the pan, after it has done all of it's required work, is what you need to know. What would be the point of measuring the temperature anywhere else?
Richard

 

[Michael Oritt]

"What would be the point of measuring the temperature anywhere else?"

Richard--

I am really most interested in monitoring whether or not the temp is out of parameters versus what it actually is. Just so long as the needle does not go past its normal high, where in the loop I measure the temp should not matter.