Rear Brake Drum Nuts

[Dr. Smoke]

I am attempting to remove the rear brake drums from my 1966 Healey, so as to deliver them to Hendrix Wire Wheel, here in NC. It is almost as if the 5 nuts were welded on.....! I have 4 of the 5 nuts removed from the left rear, but none of them are salvageable. Am sure the right rear will be the same difficulty. The nuts are literally destroyed by using my bolt extractor socket. I cannot explain how tight and frozen these are. I attempted to order replacement nuts labeled "Bolt, plate to axle case", from Moss Motors, but they are "unavailable". Does anyone know of a source for these 10 nuts I need to replace so as to be able to reinstall the brake drums after Mr. Hendrix finishes them? I assume they are 11/16"?? Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
Dr. Smoke

 

[Bob_Spidell]

031-294 Nut, 7/16" UNF, w/w, Hub to Extension | Moss Motors

031-294 Nut, 7/16" UNF, w/w, Hub to Extension |NUT, UNF

mossmotors.com

If he has them, Tom Monaco may give a discount off Moss, and only charges actual shipping:

Austin Healey Parts and Service a Specialty - Tom's Import Toys

Austin Healey Parts and Service a Specialty. Tom's Import Toy Sales & Service is dedicated to keeping classic British cars such as Austin Healeys, Triumphs, Jaguars and MG's on the road. Our mission is to provide the best in parts and service to others who love to drive the classic British cars.

tomsimport.com

 

[Dr. Smoke]

Bob, you made my day! TY!

 

[red57]

If the nuts are being destroyed by removal, how are the studs? Those nuts should only be torqued to around 60#. Question in my mind is, are they over-torqued or just rusted? If over-torqued, the studs may have been damaged by overstretching (exceeding the elastic limit), if they are rusted, are the threads still good?
Moss part # for wire wheel car studs is 031-293

 

[Dr. Smoke]

Studs look good....over torqued is an understatement! No rust, just tightened by a gorilla!

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Soak them with a penetrating oil--I favor Kroil--then apply some heat; propane torch or an inductive heater if you have one. These nuts, since they are locking style, are supposed to be chucked after removal, but I reuse them with some blue threadlocker and have never had one loosen.

I used to routinely torque these studs to 100 lb-ft and never had one stretch too much or snap; but I've cut back to 80 lb-ft. The modern cars I've worked on lately, including my Mustang GT, spec 100 lb-ft for the lug nuts (not sure what size they are).

 

[red57]

Not to belabor it but 100# is way too much and, again, it it possible to torque past the elastic limit - that's why lots of engine builders won't reuse head studs. The Bentley Book says 60-62.5# for pressed steel wheel nuts. These are a little shorter than pressed wheel studs but still the same diameter and doing the same job holding on an adapter instead of a pressed steel wheel.
Tire rack says 70-80 f0r a 7/16" stud size. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=107

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Not to belabor it but 100# is way too much and, again, it it possible to torque past the elastic limit - that's why lots of engine builders won't reuse head studs. ...

Probably, but I put 140K miles on the car with no nut/stud issues; just lucky I guess. I even used anti-seize on the threads for a while--which, of course, increases tension--until I decided that didn't make much sense. Torquing the snot out of the nuts could also crack their seats, ruining a wheel.

I was wrong; my Mustang requires 150 lb-ft:

1979-2023 Mustang Wheel Torque Specs | Steeda

If you're looking for more information on Mustang wheel lug torque specs for your 1979-2023 Ford Mustang, then look no further than Steeda for all the info you need! Check out Steeda Central now!

www.steeda.com

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Dr. Smoke, If you haven't tried to remove the RR wheel yet, I recommend you borrow or buy (preferred) an electric impact wrench and sockets. Soak the nuts with penetrating oil, apply a little heat and use an impact socket--they seem to fit a little better and Harbor Freight's are surprisingly decent--and I'll bet they spin right off. But, be careful, you'll want to find uses for your new toy; I spun the nuts down on a seat frame down and stripped one clean (driver-drills are better for this kind of job). Of course, air impact is OK too, if you have a compressor, but my friends in the trades are all going battery-electric.

Be careful, you can get carried-away:

 

[Dr. Smoke]

Now, a real mess indeed! Tried everyone's suggestions. Used impact driver....torque too high on nut, impact driver went to the max and no more. Not enough power. Used Kroil and propane torch. No joy. Last step was special nut removal sockets....it fractured with a long cheater bar. Attached are pics of the stud after my mutilation. And a pic of the fractured nut removal socket. Finally gave up on the stud as it was so mangled....figured that it would be impossible to re tap with a die. So, I cut it off, assuming I could get a replacement bolt. Still unable to remove the brake drum. Almost looks like the lug nut was welded!
I am about to give up and just put my Healey in a car trailer and deliver to Hendrix Wire Wheels. Very frustrating for something I thought would be relatively straight forward...

 

[roscoe]

I'm confused. Is the stud photo a picture of the stud without the nut before you cut it? Or did you cut the nut off and not the stud. It does look like it might have been poorly welded but even knowing some of the foolish things people have done, that would pretty much take the cake. Perhaps a big picture photo from a bit further out. Replacing a stud once you have the hub off isn't a big deal.

 

[Dr. Smoke]

That is the stud before I cut it off! It is all that is left of the nut after I tried everything to get it loose.. Does Moss Motors have such a stud? I can try to drill out the hole. Managed to get the other 4 nuts off. How do you pry off the knock off mount and brake drum, once all the nuts are removed?

 

[red57]

Moss part # for the stud is 031-293 and the nut is 031-294.
They are shown as numbers 56 & 57 on the page for "Rear Axle hypoid type", pages 72 & 73 in my spring of 2021 Moss catalogue.

You definitely have a challenge there, looks like about all you have left is the conical edge of the lug nut going into the tapered seat. After grinding the end of the exposed stud flat and as close to the hub extension as possible, try to center punch the center of the stud and drill with a 3/8" drill - should only need to drill 3/16 deep or so to get through the tapered part of the nut. Try not to drill into the hub extension.

 

[Dr. Smoke]

My plan exactly! And, as a last resort (shudder!), I can use a SawzAll with the metal blade to get behind the knock-off hub and saw the bolt from behind. Then drill the hole from behind to restore. Sounds horrible to do to a Healey!

 

[roscoe]

First, can you spin the brake drum? If you can, the shoes are not going to hold it on. I guess the contact surface of the nut became so corroded it essentially welded itself to the drum. The nuts are conves at the contact surface and fit into a dished area m.j on the drum so there may be a fairly large contact area that has become one with the drum.

You might try a large 3 jaw puller if you have access to it and if you can catch the edge of the drum use the center hub to pull it off, being careful to not pull too hard. I wouldn't grind down around the base of the stud as the drum is dished a bit to receieve the cone shaped nuts and you don't want to damage that surface if avoidable. You might also just try taking a punch, a bit smaller than the stud and whack the cut off stud a few sharp blows. It might just break up/crack what is holding it to the drum.

Ultimately, if you could drill out the stud without enlarging the hole it would free it but that would be very hard to do while on the car.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Hoo boy ... looks to me like that stud was welded, poorly. I've seen some bodges, but that takes the cake. Unfortunately, I think this drum is a total loss; no telling what kinds of torture it was subjected to. Bodging sheetmetal and even wiring is one thing, but brakes and suspensions have to be done right. What shape are your splined hubs in? If they don't have a millimeter or so of flat surface on they're NFG too (check the wheel hubs too).
Get a photo of the whole mess from a couple feet away so we can see what you're up against. Note the studs are pressed into the rear hub.