How much of a premium? BJ8 vs. BJ7?

[Fairview]

Hi All,

It has been a long but fun road, starting with restoration of a 1960 3000 when I was in college, traded it as the downpayment on my first house, then on to E types, then to Porsches, etc, etc. However, I still never fully recovered from my love of the Big Healey despite all the others that have come and gone.

So, I went to look at a MKII today (BJ7). It is an older restoration, done correctly in all ways (and I'm picky), and it has been sitting for quite a while in good storage. So I am very interested, just my cup of tea.

However, I'm trying to get a read on the Big Healey market so I can make an intelligent offer. Could you give me some idea of how the BJ7 compares in price to the later BJ8? I think a percentage difference would be helpful.

Thanks very much, Jeff

p.s. the only negative I had after looking at this 3000 is that the shifter seemed quite loose and vague. I remember my sideshifter 3000 was rather notchy and nice, and it's been so long since I drove a MkIII, I can't remember how that compares.

 

[dougie]

I just check my Sports Car Market 2011 price guide, developed by fellow Portlander and collector car authority Keith Martin. It rates the BJ7 between $35-$55K and the BJ8 between $45-75K. Both models are rated as a "B" collectable.
If you're not familer with SCM, it's by far the best source on the collector car market, https://www.sportscarmarket.com/.

 

[Fairview]

I just check my Sports Car Market 2011 price guide, developed by fellow Portlander and collector car authority Keith Martin. It rates the BJ7 between $35-$55K and the BJ8 between $45-75K. Both models are rated as a "B" collectable.
If you're not familer with SCM, it's by far the best source on the collector car market, https://www.sportscarmarket.com/.

Thanks for that info- it is quite helpful. The apparent $10,000 premium for a BJ8 over a BJ7 is more than I would have expected.

Thanks again, Jeff

 

[EV2239]

Jeff

I've got a couple couple of old cars and had decided I didn't need more when I met John Chatham at a local classic car show. He was selling a metallic blue over cream BJ7. We'd bought our last Healey from him in 1969, so I had to have this one.

I prefer the older interior and lower rear end of the BJ7. It's a subjective thing, but the BJ8 also has a higher first and the same second gear, which I never liked, so I'm a happy bunny with a less valuable car.

If you feel good about it, buy it and enjoy it because they are all B awful compared to moderns and crude compared to an E Type, but there's something about Healeys that makes them special.

 

[Keoke]

Thanks for that info- it is quite helpful.


The apparent $10,000 premium for a BJ8 over a BJ7 is more than I would have expected----ME TOO!!!--- Keoke

 

[Editor_Reid]

The apparent $10,000 premium for a BJ8 over a BJ7 is more than I would have expected.

That's actually too small of a premium, and I think you'll see that reflected in the next edition of the SCM Price Guide.

The BJ8 is iconic and highly sought-after by both "collectors" and enthusiasts. The walnut burl fascia and center console produce a much more luxury look, and there is usually a premium on any "last model" of a line; think of it as the most highly developed version of a marque (at least in the estimation of many).

The BJ7 lacks the upgraded interior, suffers from poor ground clearance, and is lower on power. It is, basically, a short-lived "transition model." I'm not trying to sound harsh; just telling it like it is. The market is the market.

I believe that SCM's next Price Guide will reflect, for a Condition 2 car, these values:

62–63 3000 Mk II BJ7 - $30,000-$50,000
63–67 3000 Mk III BJ8 - $45,000-$85,000

 

[wheelguy]

The play in the gearshifter can be a worn out nylon gearshift bushing. This is on the bottom ball of the gearshift where it goes into the tranny. A easy fix.
Wheelguy

 

[Legal Bill]

The price difference is very subjective, as can be seen by the responses in this thread. The difference will often have more to do with the condition of a specific example. With resto-mods becoming more accepted, I have seen "upgraded" earlier 6 cylinder models sell for almost as much as the BJ8s. In other cases, I have seen them sell for less than half the price of a BJ8.

When someone calls a car a number 2 car, you really have quite a range in condition and price, as is reflected in the values quoted above. A number 2 car can be near perfect, but marked down from a number 1 car due to a few small issues that 90% of the collector car market would not know or notice. Or it could be closer to a number 3 driver but has a body and paint that is just a bit too nice to call it a number 3 car. But the cost to bring that low #2 car to #1 standards mighe be over $20K.

I really don't mean to confuse this issue, just point out that the car you are looking at may well worth $45 or 50K, even though on paper it should be worth $10K less.

 

[AUSMHLY]

All good points Bill.
I tend to agree with Reid, that given both cars are in equal condition, the BJ8 would have a higher value.

 

[Healey_Z]

I went to look at a MKII today (BJ7). It is an older restoration, done correctly in all ways (and I'm picky), and it has been sitting for quite a while in good storage.

I think the MkII vs Mk III gap narrows or is meaningless the lower down on the condition scale you go, as may be the case with Fairview. It was at least for me. The difference in value would come more into play, in this case, if your intention was to put a lot of money into it to get it to the 1 or 2 condition category and you were looking for a higher resale value later.

It is interesting though, I think the MKII is the best model of the 6 cylinder cars. The MKII has the sports car raw feel with some practical features; roll-up windows, retractable top and front disk brakes. The 100/6 lacks this and the MKIII seems more of a refined touring car than a raw sporty car. Perhaps my opinion is biased

 

[why]

Perhaps a note of caution is in order. Keith Martin has certainly managed himself into a position of "authority" in the auction world of sports cars and his price guide reflects that market. However, starting well over ten years ago when he had a column in Autoweek I became suspicious of his over zealous predictions and did a study over a year of what he predicted cars would be worth and sent the results to Mandel the elder which prompted a many year exchange of correspondence on the subject. Nine of his ten cars went down instead of up and one broke even. He was an active player for his own account at that time and his columns and price guides certainly supported his own activities.
For the private enthusiast selling through newspapers, Hemmings, and ebay with from rough to excellent "drivers," the auction prices have little meaning. Especially in todays economy, his low for a BJ8 of $45,000 would be top dollar for a privately traded driver. Good luck,
Jay, '65 3000

 

[elrey]

Taking a page from Mr. Martins book I think that the earlier MK II is the best [The tricarb.] solely because I own one.

 

[AUSMHLY]

Taking a page from Mr. Martins book I think that the earlier MK II is the best [The tricarb.] solely because I own one.

Hard to argue with that logic Elrey...

Maybe it really comes down to, which model pulls your heart, the BJ7 or BJ8. It sound like you'd prefer the BJ7.

"However, I'm trying to get a read on the Big Healey market so I can make an intelligent offer. Could you give me some idea of how the BJ7 compares in price to the later BJ8? I think a percentage difference would be helpful."

Fairview, does comparing a different model, BJ8, help you negotiate a price on a BJ7? I'd focus more on what the BJ7 market is doing now. As mentioned previously, the foot rule comes into play. The better the car, the more it's worth. What are other BJ7's in the same condition as the one your looking at go for. Apples to apples.

Roger

 

[Editor_Reid]

...in todays economy, his low for a BJ8 of $45,000 would be top dollar for a privately traded driver.

It's well to note how a Condition 2 car (what the SCM Price Guide targets) is defined:
<span style="font-weight: bold">
Very good, club concours, some small flaws.</span>

This is the condition upon which the Price Guide is based, and so a Condition 2 car would not be a "nice driver" or even a "very nice driver." It's a fully restored car that is probably achieving at least low Gold or maybe high Silver in Austin-Healey Concours.

There are always outliers, but it's going to be pretty rare that you find a Gold-certified BJ8 for sale for under $45,000.

Glancing at the ads in the upcoming November issue of <span style="font-style: italic">HEALEY MARQUE</span> magazine, I see two BJ8s for sale with prices listed, and they are at $52,000 and $63,900. Neither of those ads mentions a concours certification.

I agree that $45,000 may be the high end for a driver-quality BJ8, but that's not a Condition 2 car, and not what the Price Guide lists.

 

[Fairview]

[/quote]
Fairview, does comparing a different model, BJ8, help you negotiate a price on a BJ7? I'd focus more on what the BJ7 market is doing now. As mentioned previously, the foot rule comes into play. The better the car, the more it's worth. What are other BJ7's in the same condition as the one your looking at go for. Apples to apples.

Roger [/quote]

Yes, Roger, it would helpful. I think this BJ7 owner/seller sees what the BJ8's are being sold for at auction and doesn't think there should be much, if any, difference. I was of the same opinion initially.

So I want to get it clear in my own mind what I can comfortably spend for a BJ7. If I decide to "cash in my chips" so to speak later, I'd rather not have overpaid by 20% when I bought in.

My take away so far is that the BJ7 is not an orphan (like my Riley was), but is a rung below the BJ8 in market price. I'm okay with that as long as I don't pay top dollar.

I know you all must be thinking this guy is not an enthusiast, he is more of a speculator. Well, I bought my first 3000 for $300 in 1973. Frankly, to spend north of $35,000 now means I have to think of whether this makes any sense financially, too. No less of an enthusiast, but pragmatic given the amount involved.

Thanks for all the input and replies so far. This has been very instructive, and makes it easier to make a realistic decision.

Jeff

 

[HealeyRick]

There's no doubt a BJ8 will fetch a premium over a BJ7 given two cars in similar condition. And the BJ8 is likely to be more attractive to collectors in the future. It's difficult to budge a seller away from "Barrett-Jackson" syndrome where everyone has an overinflated idea of their car's worth. Probably the only way to fight it is look for completed sales of BJ7s on eBay, asking prices in the club mags, listings on Hemmings, etc. To me (and I'm a BJ7 owner) "north of $35k" seems to be "all the money" for something less than a concours car.

 

[EV2239]

IMO the trick is buy what you like, spend money wisely to get it as nice to look at and to drive as you can, keep all records of everything you've done and as much history as you can track down. If you do this, your car will make quite close to a top price, whereas most for sale won't.

I've done this for some years now and if not made a profit I have at least got my money back. A good example with good provenance of even less desirable models, will always fetch premium price.

Ash