Engine rebuild questions.

[dcarlg]

I have started my first engine rebuild. BJ8.
The crank is out for inspection. The head is at a machine shop for new exhaust seats, bronze guides, valves and springs.
Block will be dropped off in a few days to tank and check bores. Still looking for a local shop to lighten the flywheel.
It seems people have reported variable results after rear oil seal installation. I bought one; that was the easy part.
Is it worthwhile getting it installed?
Is ceramic coating exhaust manifolds really better than a good coat of High Temp Rustoleum?
Thanks,
Douglas

 

[Keoke]

The response to both your quories is YES

 

[Michael Oritt]

I agree with Keoke--do them both.

 

[dcarlg]

Thanks Keoke. This has been a great learning experience. britishcarforum.com is the greatest resource!
More questions:
Should I spray paint the head and block with engine enamel first, then Moss AH green, then a clear coat? Or just Moss AH green?
I have read cast iron doesn't really need primer, but stamped metal and aluminum parts need self etch primer. True?
Should gaskets get a layer of hylomer on both sides to prevent oil leaks?
Does only the head gasket get copper spray as a gasket dressing?
I am sending the damper to DamperDudes.com.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Theoretically, flat machined surfaces need only a gasket (if that). But, I'm a belt-and-suspenders guy and usually put a thin film of gasket maker/sealant on both sides of the gasket. I used to use Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket, but I'm tempted to try one of the spray-on silicone products, which might be easier to remove down the road. Same with the head gasket. If the block and head have smooth, flat surfaces no goop is needed and if they don't, then no amount of goop is gonna help. The copper spray shouldn't hurt, though the 'old-timers' recommend WellSeal varnish. We used WellSeal on our 100M rebuld and, so far, no leaks. I had problems with leaky exhaust manifold-downpipe flanges, but double-nutting the studs and a layer of high-temp silicone on the gaskets seems to have solved that issue (again, flat surfaces are critical).

I applied Moss engine paint on a bare block about 110K miles ago, and it's held up fine, but my engine builder thinks it needs priming so I got some Moss engine primer for him to apply. Never heard of anyone putting a clear coat on an engine; definitely not needed, and may not hold up with heat.

 

[dcarlg]

Thanks Bob.
OK, I'll add Moss primer to my list.

 

[EV2239]

Loctite 5699 is the most effective silicone gasket cement I've ever used. Apparently it will seal gaps of up to 1mm (40 thou)

when rebuilding engines, cleaning out oilways is the biggest problem. I had all the oilway blanking plugs removed, the block chemically cleaned, bored and ground and then put through an industrial washer prior to reassembly. 200 miles later my son drove the car 2,400 miles Europe in 95 degrees.

i bought my engine as "rebuilt" from Los Angeles and in less than 200 miles I had to do it again because it hadn't been cleaned properly.

while I was at the engine shop, I noticed 2 Ferrari engines. One had failed immediately because it hadn't been cleaned properly after machining and the other because it had been in a paint shop for six months and enough dust had got into the engine to destroy it.

FWIW Wellseal and Hylomar are WW2 gasket cements originated by Rollls-Royce and neither are as good as modern silicones, but they all vary. The best is easy to clean off and not harmful if it ends up in oilways. Loctite products are the best IMO.

 

[dcarlg]

As a novice, this is really useful advice.
I'll be sure to pick up some Locktite 5699 soon. And Permatex Spray a Gasket.
But, why even use a gasket if I am placing sealer/cement on both sides of it? Wouldn't it be easier and at least as effective to just place a layer of silicone and forego the gasket on parts I hope not to separate again?
I have used Loctite red RTV to attach a silicone gasket to the valve cover, but not between the gasket and the head. No more leaks there.
And I will have the machine shop remove the brass oilway plugs prior to tank cleaning.
I removed the freeze plugs and aluminum engine ID plate last weekend.

 

[EV2239]

Good plan to remove freeze plugs because if the block is dipped in anything corrosive they tend to rust through. They do anyway.

The Healey oil galleries are quite large diameter so a large surface area for boring and grinding dust to accumulate.

It's worth visiting the Loctite site for automobiles and understanding all their products and what they do. For example, even though you will use Nyloc nuts and tab washers, some thread sealant will be more effective in preventing anything loosening off.

I wouldn't use any gasket cement on the Head gasket, just follow the manual, but everywhere else I would and the gasket. I've fitted the rear seal on the crankshaft of two engines and it works well. Only thing is that it's very hard work cutting away metal from the backplate to clear it and the template supplied is inaccurate.

i had trouble with Tappets being poor quality too, I bought mine from Piper, a well respected Brit Camshaft manufacturer who also reprofiled mine. The previous set probably were Moss's cheaper offering, undersize and not even round.

My present engine is silky smooth, mechanically silent and very powerful compared to most, so it was worth it in the end, but I spent a lot more than I'd intended.

 

[dcarlg]

I bought MGC bucket style tappets and plan to get pushrods to fit from Smith's in Oregon. The crankshaft shop will do the balancing, eventually.
I should hear from them today or tomorrow whether the crank needs grinding or just polishing.

 

[dcarlg]

What is wrong with the rear seal template?

 

[BJ8Healeys]

I have started my first engine rebuild. BJ8.

Block will be dropped off in a few days to tank and check bores.
It seems people have reported variable results after rear oil seal installation. I bought one; that was the easy part.
Is it worthwhile getting it installed?
Is ceramic coating exhaust manifolds really better than a good coat of High Temp Rustoleum?
Thanks,
Douglas

Douglas, if you want your engine to have its serial number plate when it comes out of the hot tank, you better remove it now. The aluminum plate will dissolve in hot tank chemicals, and it is the only place on the engine where the serial number is marked. Too many BJ8 engines cannot be identified anymore.
I had a rear seal kit installed and it certainly stopped those pesky oil leaks at the rear. I was able to drive my BJ8 from North Carolina to Nevada without having to add ANY oil en route.
I also had my exhaust manifolds Jet-Hot coated. After 15 years they sure look a lot better than natural rust.

 

[dcarlg]

Thanks Steve.
I removed the engine ID plate last weekend. How do I reattach it after the rebuild?
I'll talk to the machinist about the rear seal when I drop the block off.
What color Jet hot is recommended?

 

[CLEAH]

Douglas,

My engine is clear coated. Here is what it looks like. I just saw it for the first time this morning visiting my now finished car at my restorer's shop. I must admit I was blown away when I raised the bonnet!

 

[Bob_Spidell]

FWIW, I just had a long discussion with my engine builders regarding the rear crank seal. The seal--at least the one I bought from Moss years ago--has no means to return oil it has retained to the sump. IOW, whatever oil gets past the scroll 'seal' is trapped between the rear bearing cap and engine plate and the seal, and will eventually be forced past the seal. We didn't see any prudent way to drill a hole in the bearing cap, and any pathway would require a relief on the seal housing as well. Both machinists recommended against it. This may be why some owners report only partial success with rear seal installations; i.e. some continue to leak at least a little. We did install one in our 100--which required machining of the crank--and the instructions for it recommended drilling a hole in the bearing cap, but no such recommendation was provided with the 6-cyl seal. We didn't like the idea of drilling and possibly weakening a main bearing cap. The machinist also chucked the 'cigarette' felt gaskets and the square cross-section gaskets tor 'Right Stuff' silicone sealant forced into the holes until it oozed out the seams.

The Right Stuff sealant appears similar--at least, it's grey--to the Locktite product recommended above. I was surprised the Locktite product advertised resiliency to water and glycol, but not to petroleum products.

 

[Randy Forbes]

These are some links to a few of the engines I've built in recent times__you know, since Al Gore invented the internet__and though hardly intended to be a complete guide, you will see which and how I used some of the commercially available products, including some where and when to use what. Might even answer some questions you have (like reattaching the engine # tag) and haven't asked yet (like how to go about washing out the block and ensuring the oil galleys are clean**).

Pictures contain both Healey & BMW engines, but the focus should be on the tasks, more so than the subject

https://spcarsplus.com/gallery3/index.php/LS_BN4
https://spcarsplus.com/gallery3/index...4_engine_build
https://spcarsplus.com/gallery3/index...ild/Final-push (this album is "embedded" in the "... engine build" album)
https://spcarsplus.com/gallery3/index...S-BN4-XMSN-O-H transmission o/h

https://spcarsplus.com/gallery3/index.php/Tweety_Two
https://spcarsplus.com/gallery3/index.php/TM-S-54-O-H
https://spcarsplus.com/gallery3/index.php/AMcD_engine?page=17 (engine work starts on page 17)



** And while on the subject of clean oil galleys, I pulled this wad of plastic out of a BMW ///M (S-52) engine that had already been in service for a decade (>10 years)!

If nothing else, these links may prove vital if you ever have trouble sleeping...

 

[BJ8Healeys]

Thanks Steve.
I removed the engine ID plate last weekend. How do I reattach it after the rebuild?
I'll talk to the machinist about the rear seal when I drop the block off.
What color Jet hot is recommended?

You don't say how you removed the plate, but the correct way is to file (or use a Dremel tool) a slot in the head of each rivet, then use a screwdriver to turn them out. The "rivets" have a very loose thread on the shank. Mine came out surprisingly easy. You can get replacement "drive rivets" from British Car Specialists and tap them into the holes. I hope the remains of the old rivets aren't still in the holes. (www.britishcarspecialists.com).

I chose the silver-colored Jet-Hot coating. I have close to 80K miles on the engine now and the coating is still in pretty good shape. Just a hint of rust beginning to appears on the sharp edges, and not noticeable unless you look closely.

 

[dcarlg]

Well, I found the old thread on removing PK drive screws a little too late.
I had already ground off the heads and removed the ID plate.
So, I'll probably get to drill new holes.
Meanwhile, haven't heard from Crankshaft Craftsmen yet. I'll call them tomorrow to see if I have trash or treasure. It looked good to me.
So...
I've been studying the forums to learn about pistons. Interested in keeping costs down, so probably cast pistons.
It seems County are the preferred brand due to lighter weight, better finish, closer tolerances and better ring pack.
AE Nurel are also good, but more variation of weight and diameter among sets. Plus single (more friction) oil ring.
Am I missing anything?

 

[dcarlg]

Randy,
Great advice, as always.
And yes, I am a visual learner, so the photos are great!
Question, can I use a toaster over to bake ceramic barrier onto pistons and valve faces?
My copilot would not be happy with those odors indoors.
Douglas