Crane/Pertronix Ignition Question

[Atrus]

Question on the ignitions - from what I understand, the Ignitor does not have overload protection, and if you leave the key on for an extended amount of time without the engine running, you will damage the unit.

The Ignitor II has this overload protection.

My questions are:

1) The Ignitor II does not have an application to fit our cars, correct? (25D dizzy)

2) Does the Crane unit have some type of overload protection?

I can just see myself completely forgetting about this, working on something on the car, and toasting the module. I'd like the more failsafe unit as reviews seem to indicate the Crane/Ignitor are fairly equal.

Thanks!

 

[Sarastro]

I have the Crane XR700. The Crane requires a ballast resistor either in the coil or in the positive wire to the coil. As long as that is in place, I don't think there is any problem in leaving it on--I have left mine on a while, and it doesn't get hot, but I've been told that it will if there is no ballast.

I've had some discussions about this--some people say they won't touch the Pertronix and others say it's fine. I just dunno--no personal experience. But if it's really valid that it fries itself if left powered up, I consider that unacceptable.

I suspect the problem with the Pertronix is simply overheating--inside the distributor, it's much harder to get the heat out. Conversely, the Crane's electronics package has a nice, well finned housing.

I have a write-up about my experience with the Crane--not all positive, either. See https://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/ignition. Also, if you do a search through the forum archives you'll find a lot of info about these units.

 

[Atrus]

Thanks Steve - I read your previous post about your crane install. Great job on it by the way!

 

[dklawson]

Crane requires a ballast resistor? That's the first I've heard of that. The requirement for the ballast resistor in an aftermarket ignition should be a function of the current draw of the coil you are running. (Low resistance, high-current coil = need for ballast resistor). I ran a Crane/Alison unit for several years on my GT6 w/o ballast with a standard ignition coil. I only replaced the Crane/Alison unit after I washed my engine (like an idiot) and got the module soaking wet... somehow water got inside and fried the electronics).

I'm sure that Pertronix will eventually have Ignitor II for the 25D distributors, obviously that doesn't help right now. There is one minor trade-off with Ignitor II. It does not support zero-speed firing. This means you can no longer static time your car. That's not a big deal but it does mean that if you don't have a timing light you'll want to buy one when you install Ignitor II.

 

[Morris]

If you are going to do a Megasquirt set up, you can wire your Petronix onto a 5-pole relay connected to the same relay circuit that runs the fuel pump. When MS boots, (when you turn the ignition on) it runs the fuel pump for a few seconds then cuts it off. The fuel pump won't run again until MS detects that the engine is cranking. Wire the 5th pole of your Pertonix relay to the starter switch so that it only gets power when the starer is engaged. In this way, you turn your key on, pertronix gets power for a few seconds then powers down. You turn your key to the start position, and power is supplied to your pertronix. Once the car is running, MS keeps power going to the pertronix until you kill the switch.

 

[Sarastro]

The crane XR700 does indeed require ballast resistance, whether in the coil or external. The Crane XR3000 does not--and, in fact, the instructions command you sternly to remove any exsiting resistance. So, some models may not. Maybe this resolves the issue.

How much trouble you'd get into if you didn't use ballast with the XR700, I can't really say. The Crane instructions imply that it will get pretty hot. As for me, I just do what I'm told; my momma raised me that way...!

 

[dklawson]

After your reply I went to the Crane site and read a little more on the XR-700. See:
https://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&lvl=5&prt=160

The product has a specified current limit of 4.5 amps which would indeed require a ballast resistor (even with a standard coil). However, I'd hate to see someone put a "typical" 1.5 ohm ballast resistor in series with a standard coil to achieve this. The spark would just be too cold. Perhaps this would justify buying a turn-key complete system from Crane so all the bits are sized to work together.

I have to assume from this that the unit I destroyed washing my engine was not an XR-700.

 

[Atrus]

Wow, great idea Morris! Yes, I am definitely considering the Megasquirt. I am just trying to figure out total cost and what I'd need. I am thinking of trying to use a TBI from a '90 Geo Tracker or Suzuki Samurai 1.3L. Haven't found much info on them though to know if it'd be a good fit for the engine.

 

[Morris]

If you go that route, you probably want to get a manifold from a Weber downdraft conversion. You will then simply need to make a plate from Aluminum to mate the two.

I think the Suzuki TBI will work fine, but it sure is ugly.

I am working on a 1.25" plate that mounts between each stock carb and manifold. This plate will accept injectors from a Dodge Neon. It should look pretty much stock from a short distance.

I just need 1275 manifold and carbs (my car is a 1500) someone willing to test it out for me... and time... and money...

With a 2 year old on the ground and another kid arriving in May, both are pretty scarce right now. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[Atrus]

That's exactly what I was thinking. I don't know much about the LBC's as this is my first. I just started looking online for the setup of the weber. Looks to me like it's an additional manifold that fits to the stock dual carb 1275 manifold?

Not too worried about the look as I am not keeping the car stock.

The Neon project sounds interesting. I'd be interested in something like that as well. Would you use the stock carbs/butterflies then? How would you incorporate a TPS?

My fear is stackup - I want to make sure the hood closes.

 

[Morris]

It's definitely going to be a tight fit. You may be able to save some space with one o' them flat cone K&N style filters.

The setup on my car does not use a TPS. Rather it uses engine vacuum to determine accel enrinchements, and I have "anti-run on" features programmed into my fuel table. And, yes, it uses the stock butterfly.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

So if leaing the key on for an extended time is the issue i.e. to run the radio /CD player while engine is not running since these cars do not have an Aux Switch do like I did and install a bypass switch the runs the radio directly off of the battery when the car is turned off.

I got a mini DPDT switch from Radio Shack and mounted it concealed to the Left Dash Support Bracket. Found the power wire going to the radio. In normale power feeds from fuse block, through flasher switch possibly as it seems everything feeds through there, and then over to the radio. If switch is flipped the other way, direct fused feed off of, I think I pulled power from the hot side of the solenoid.

Solution = when engine is not running flipping switch mounted under dash and easily reached from outside the car bypasses rest of electrical system and prevent issues with ignition system. A simple solution that cost me some time, wire, a switch, solder, and some heat shrink.

Jim Gruber
Dayton, OH
'68 Sprite