Clutch hydraulic woes

[mrsprite]

This is sort of long.....I apologize.

I have been having all sorts of issues with my clutch lately. It started with a bad master cylinder. It is a stock 7/8" unit, which may be part of the problem since I am using disc brakes up front. It was rebuilt and all was well for awhile.

Then I had issues with the slave cylinder, which is the stock Datsun piece (I have a Datsun A15 engine & 5-sp.). I bought a new one, but the previous owner modified it to fit within the Bugeye's frame rail, so unless I drilled and tapped a new hole for the hydraulic line it wasn't going to work. So I just rebuilt the old slave with the guts from the new one and it worked well for awhile, but the pedal would go soft after driving/using the clutch. It seems the hydraulic line to the slave was dripping.....it is a later flexible hose from a 1275. I tightened it up the best I could and it still didn't seem right. Now it appears the line is leaking around where the end is crimped to the hose. I ordered a new hose from Moss, but it hasn't arrived yet. My question (after that way too long of a set-up) is this.....is there anything I can do to temporarily "fix" the hydraulic line so I can at least drive it?

Right now I am getting very little to no clutch action and it is impossible to shift. I have been matching revs the best I can, but I still grind gears. There is a neat cruise this Saturday put on by the local British car club (lots of twisty mountain roads) and I want to participate, but unless the hose gets here tomorrow or I find a way to bandage it up it looks like that's going to be a no-go.

Any suggestions?? Or am I screwed?

Thanks.

 

[aeronca65t]

If you "pump" the clutch up and down 4 or 5 times and *then* shift, it may help a bit. Bring a can of brake fluid if you go anywhere...this pumping may increase the leaking.

There's really no easy way to patch that hydraulic hose (that I can think of).

 

[jlaird]

Noop, I agree as well. Got to replace the line.

 

[mrsprite]

Thanks....I kind of figured I was screwed, but thought I'd find out for sure.

It was working fairly well.....all I've had to do was top it off every once in awhile, but something apparently happened today while driving it. Now nothing seems to help.....there is still some resistance when the pedal is pushed, but I'm just not getting enough throw. I've adjusted the pushrod on the slave (it's threaded) and I've bled the line as well. It just isn't able to push the release fork far enough with that leak. I am hoping the new hose arrives tomorrow (Friday).....that would solve the immediate problem.

I also bought (and am still waiting for) a slave cylinder for a 1275.....I believe it is a 1" bore. I'm hoping this will improve the engagement of the clutch or at least make it a bit smoother.....we'll see. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[ChrisS]

What slave is in the car now? If it is the datsun unit the threads may be different than what the new hose has. Just be careful you don't get them cross threaded. That may be the source of the leak in the first place. If you have a local shop that make hydraulic hoses they should be able to make one with whatever ends you want. The clutch is notoriously difficult to bleed so keep at it if the travel looks too small (after the leak is repaired).

 

[tosoutherncars]

My local discount hardware place (Harbour Freight type place, called Princess Auto) carries all sorts of hydraulic fittings (something like 400 different styles and sizes), and can crimp them onto all sorts of hose, often for less than it would cost to order an 'original' piece.

Suggest that you see if similar businesses exist in your area.

Aha, I see Chris beat me to it...

-D

 

[bugimike]

You could also replace the flex. hose with a hard line to the slave cylinder, just get a line that is 12"-18" longer than you need, and "coil" the extra length to absorb flexing and vibration!!

 

[mrsprite]

All good suggestions....thanks again. The slave is the stock Datsun 11/16" unit. I believe that this size coupled with the stock Bugeye 7/8" master is what is giving me a stiff pedal (and an "on/off" feel to the clutch). I may be wrong, but I will be experimenting with the 1" 1275 slave to see if it helps.

Also, I mentioned that the Datsun slave was modified to fit within the frame rails since the hydraulic fittings sit less than a 1/4" from the frame when installed......this modification was a new hole drilled and tapped perpendicular to the original hole. The fitting he used is the same as the stock BMC fitting used on the flexible hose, so no potential for leaks there. I should have described that earlier to avoid the confusion.

I will snap some pics to show you guys what I am dealing with when I tear it all apart this afternoon. The good news is the new hose arrived and is just waiting for me to put it in, so I don't have to source it from someone else. I have an appointment in an hour, so it will have to wait until I get back. It looks like I will make the mountain cruise tomorrow! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[regularman]

Go to advance auto and get them to let you look at the brake/clutch lines in the back. They come in different lengths and already have the conversion fittings on them, like british on one end and metric on the other. They only cost like $6 and then you will have hard line instead of hose. I had to do this when I added the datsun 5 speed. I looked through all kinds of fittings and adapters until they let me in the back and I found those made up brake lines. Just insist on seeing there brake lines.

 

[zimmy]

i got my line at Advance Auto also.......perfect....z

 

[jlaird]

Mine as well.

 

[regularman]

Yep, just find the one guy there that acually knows whats going on and you will find it Mrsprite. You must ingore and get past the people I call "register droids" /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

[jlaird]

yep, take me to your parts dude.

 

[mrsprite]

OK.....I had to get a custom hose made since it wound up not being a Sprdiget part afterall. I installed the hose and bled the system, but it still does not want to shift. It is driveable (barely) if I put it in gear first then start the car and match revs with shift points.....not much fun though. It just doesn't feel like the clutch is disengaging.....it's always engaged, or partially engaged.

I will be driving it to my partents house so I can get a second set of hands and will try bleeding it once more. If that doesn't cure it then I am stumped. Either there is another issue with the master and/or slave or I fried the clutch itself......maybe the pressure plate gave up the ghost?

Anyway, I still managed to drive a small portion of the car club cruise this morning. I made it to Estes Park, which is about 30 miles west of Loveland. It was OK, but I really wanted to drive through Rocky Mountain National Park!

I'll post pics soon of the clutch stuff and the cruise.

 

[ChrisS]

Try pushing slave cylinder piston back with the bleeder open. Sometimes an air pocket forms there and is tough to get out with normal bleeding.

 

[mrsprite]

Try pushing slave cylinder piston back with the bleeder open. Sometimes an air pocket forms there and is tough to get out with normal bleeding.

Good advice.....I did this, but maybe I should have done it some more. I just got fed up with it last night and went to bed. I spent 4 hours walking in search of this hose then another 3 hours installing it and bleeding.....I was worn out!

I'll let you guys know how I make out after another round of bleeding. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[kcbugeye1275]

If you have an old hard line laying around you can bench bleed your master. Take the line off at the master and install the line you have cut off at about 12" and bent so it comes back to the reservior. Pump it until you get no air. Now, recontect your line to the slave and it might be easier to bleed your slave. Good luck.

 

[regularman]

Mrsprite, the spridgets are one of the hardest cars to get bleed all of the air out of that I have ever worked on. It has to do with the way the line is run on the American spec vehicles. Up and over and the down. You may think you have it bled but still have air trapped in the line that won't bleed out in the conventional way. This only hsppens when the line has been allowed to get completely empty. I have told this to others before and this is the only sure fire way to get all the air out. you have to bleed it from the top as that is where the air runs to. Use the pssenger side front brake as a pump. loosen the bleeder fitting on the brake attach a hose to it and have someone press the brake and bleed the air from the hose. Then loosen the bleeder fitting on the clutch slave and attach the end of the hose to it. Then loosen the fitting at the clutch master cylinder(just a line fitting not a bleeder) and have someone press the brake forcing fluid up the clutch line and bleeding the air out at the cluth master cylinder. When all the air is out, tighten all the fittings and top up the fluid reserviors and your done. It sounds much more complicated than it is, but it works.

 

[regularman]

mrsprite, if you want to know more. pm me and I will give you my number and you can call me and sometimes that makes it clearer. This works, the problem with the clutch is that the master cylinder piston is very small and does not move the volume of the line in one pump on us spec cars. On brit spec cars, the line is much shorter and the line can be purged in one pump.

 

[bugimike]

It sounds suspiciously like a shot T/O bearing to me!!!! All the bleeding in the world won't fix that!! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif