Brake line material

[JSabah]

I am about to install new brake lines and have come to the conclusion that I want to use the copper nickel type material. This is being marketed under several names and made by different companies such as NiCopp by AGS or Cunifer available from Fedhill and made in the UK. Supposedly the Cunifer is what Volvo and Porsche use and runs just over $2/ft (for 3/16") while NiCopp you can find all over EBay for just about $1/ft). Both meet DOT specs....does anybody know if there is a difference or if one os better quality than another? Thanks

 

[Randy Forbes]

I used a set of the Cunifer pipes, probably sourced from Southern Carburettors, as they were then known, but I was concerned by how soft they were__the pipe to the rear brakes had gotten flattened.

I replaced them with a set of stainless steel pipes from Classic Tube https://www.classictube.com/index.p..._1_Category=&submit=Search&vmcchk=1&Itemid=53

I have a lot more confidence in these pipes than the copper ones. I also installed a ss set in a customer's MKIII; I wouldn't use anything else.

 

[RA_Healey]

I don't know of the differences.

I went with Fedhill https://www.fedhillusa.com/ Also stepped up to the plate and bought the flaring tool. Yes expensive but what a great tool.

 

[vette]

I bought my copper/nickle brake lines from Healey Surgeons in Maryland. Seems to me they were already made up to length, I don't remember having to flare them. Dave.

 

[jcsb]

I'm using seamless stainless steel tubing. You would have to have arms like Popeye to flare them normally, but I a hydraulic flaring tool so really not much of a problem.

John

 

[Legal Bill]

I used a set of the Cunifer pipes, probably sourced from Southern Carburettors, as they were then known, but I was concerned by how soft they were__the pipe to the rear brakes had gotten flattened.

I replaced them with a set of stainless steel pipes from Classic Tube https://www.classictube.com/index.p..._1_Category=&submit=Search&vmcchk=1&Itemid=53

I have a lot more confidence in these pipes than the copper ones. I also installed a ss set in a customer's MKIII; I wouldn't use anything else.

Agreed. If you are not going with the original stuff, this is the way to go.

 

[steveg]

I'm using seamless stainless steel tubing. You would have to have arms like Popeye to flare them normally, but I a hydraulic flaring tool so really not much of a problem.

John

Is there a source for pre-made SS lines now that Doug Reid is no longer with us?

 

[steveg]

Have there been any instances of the copper nickel pipes failing?

I've been using them for years and they're cost-effective, easy to flare and bend. Also easy to anneal.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Is there a source for pre-made SS lines now that Doug Reid is no longer with us?

I put a link in post #2; I've installed two (2) car-sets from them, and I'm hard to please!

 

[steveg]

Oops! Sure enough, there's the link a whole 4" away!

 

[Legal Bill]

Have there been any instances of the copper nickel pipes failing?

I've been using them for years and they're cost-effective, easy to flare and bend. Also easy to anneal.

I'll admit my ignorance as I have never used them. I did not bother with them becuase copper is a soft metal and these lines are advertised as very easy to bend and flare, etc which highlights my concerns about copper. I have no idea how rigid they really are, nor do i know how the nickel is integrated into the copper (alloy, plating, lining??).

What I do know is that there are some areas where the wrench will rub against the brake lines when you are trying to remove a bolt. I don't want to worry about crushing the lines in such a situation (ask me how I know this can happen). I have no idea how the copper nickel finish holds up or how it looks, but I know SS stays shiny and bright forever and if it should get trarnished (has not happened in 7 years) it can be polished back to shiny again. I am a lot less worried about the SS lines getting crushed under the car if I should run over something. The brake a fuel lines are one of three areas where my car is not original. I was motivated to depart from mother Healey by the experiences of my youth which included many squished and ruptured mild steel brake, clutch and fuel lines.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Oops! Sure enough, there's the link a whole 4" away!

 

[Lotuswins]

JSabah,

I don't know about the difference between the two brands, but you can get ahold of the factory reps and discuss the what the differences might be. Here is an interesting article on the background of the copper nickel lines: https://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake-tube/brake.html

Note that the copper nickel lines have the same ultimate strength as the steel. The yield is lower though. The main reason for going to the CuNi lines though is for corrosion issues. SS lines are very nice too, but can only withstand a single 37 degree single flare, so require all new fittings and new tools if you plan on modifying the system. Many of the SS installations also incorporate aluminum fittings, which introduce corrosion issues in themselves, so if you can install the SS system with all SS or steel fittings, then that system would be fine also. Note also that aluminum brake fittings are no longer allowed in sanctioned racing events (from talking with some racers in the pits at PIR last year - I have no other background on that issue).

I installed a NiCu kit from Almec in the UK in my BJ8, and am very happy with the results. It came with all new brass fittings which was the reason I went with them. I had only one problem with the kit, the line to the remote reservoir was too short, and they promptly sent me a replacement at no cost.

Good luck with your install......

 

[jcsb]

JSabah,

SS lines are very nice too, but can only withstand a single 37 degree single flare, so require all new fittings and new tools if you plan on modifying the system.

Not sure where you got that information but I've done single, double, and bubble flares on stainless tubing. You need seamless tubing and a hydraulic flaring tool, but it is very doable.

John

 

[steveg]

Referring to the CuNi lines as "copper" gives them a bum rap. They're actually much harder than copper - more like malleable iron. Am sure the alloy of nickel prevents the fatigue cracking copper's prone to.

Would expect the material was tested in order to be DOT approved - there's implied fitness from that.

Also a good flaring tool for non-SS will run around $50 whereas a hydraulic tool will be over $200.

I'd summarize SS as more expensive and difficult to work with and can shine up nice! CuNi has a light copper color, less expensive and easier to build your own if that's what you like (I do).

My 2 cents

 

[jcsb]

I absolutely agree that SS is harder to work with. You need to plan your bends carefully. You also should be experienced with making flares if your doing SS too. I also pressure test before anything goes on. Hydraulic tool is a must, but a good tool last a long time and I do a lot of flares. I do a lot on motorcycles I build and so it's also a cosmetic thing. If your making your own lines then the cost of materials really isn't a big deal. I noticed that the website that Randy put up they charge $398 for the original tubing material and $450 for the stainless. I will also caution that any stainless brake lines should be seamless tubing. I bought some stainless brake line tubing from Summit Racing and the first flare split.

John

 

[vette]

Hi all, I guess I'll add my 2 cents. When I bought my Healey it had brake lines run by a very well respected "Healey Shop" and they were copper/nickle. That was more than 15 years ago. I then drove the car for 7 years and never experienced any problem with the brake lines. I figured they're DOT legal and if anything in Pa is DOT legal it is good. I will say that if you have a direct hit on the brake line with a substantial rock it probably would crush easier than SS. But about the only place that would happen would be a hit on the line at the rear cruciform because that is the only place where the brake line is truely directly under the frame. Everywhere else it is up on the side of the frame. So don't drive your Healey in OFF ROAD, boulder strewn terrain. With all due respect to the proponents of SS I believe the only reason to use SS is because you like the looks of it. ( i happen to like the looks of the copper/nickle ). Looks much more original. SS is not original to the car so in show competition it should get demerits. So here is one last point about SS and the main reason I have stopped using it. In the Corvette world SS has become a real marketing come-on. Mainly because in the earlier disc brake Vettes the calipers could not be honed and if you wanted to save an original caliper you had it sleeved with SS. SS became the norm for upgraded everything from lines to fittings including flared nuts and bleeders. So I like everyone else started installing SS whenever I rebuilt Vette brakes. Then after awhile I had some brakes that wouldn't hold a good bleed for very long and discovered that having used SS bleeders in the cast iron calipers, the tip of the SS bleeder was harder than the seat in the cast iron caliper and the SS bleeder having been loosened and tightened a number of times was actually grinding into the seat of the caliper and putting a groove in it. This then was making it almost impossible for the bleeder to seal. In design the bleeder and the seat in the caliper should be experiencing approx equal "crush" to effect a good seal. But with a groove now in the seat and a SS tip that would give no crush, the bleeders leaked. That's when I stopped using stainless steel. Dave.

 

[jcsb]

Dave, It sounds as though the taper on the bleeder was not correct if it was making a groove in the seat.
John

 

[JSabah]

Thank you all for your very good input.

 

[saltiga]

I purchased my copper type line from Darrell Curran oxcc@sbcglobal.net in the USA. All fitted perfectly looks great and not a leak at any join. Saltiga