TR4/4A Uprated TR-4 oil pump or....

[nissanite]

I had my oil pump prepped by a TR performance firm but my engine builder (JBRacing) wants an uprated pump. We are installing a Cambridge Motorsports drive & an oil cooler (Florida).
Racetorations may have one but I am waiting on a reply. Do we need one to run a race/ultra fast road car?

 

[TR4nut]

As a suggestion, you may want to contact Steve Yott, who has developed an uprated pump that is getting good reviews with the TR racers here in the US. Here is a link to Tony Drew's website the shows the pump and gives the contact information: Tony Drew's engine rebuild

 

[TR3driver]

I see Randy beat me to it

Not an absolute necessity, IMO, but a Good Idea. Too many "new" pumps are junk, and even the originals fail sometimes.

Most of the serious racers like to also run an Accusump or similar, to help protect against oil starvation in long high speed curves (where the pump may suck air due to the oil rushing to the side of the engine), and some have installed oil pan baffles to also combat the problem.

 

[trfourtune]

how hot is the car?
I would NOT consider it (steve yott pump)unless you have a cam with over 300 degrees, 12.5:1 compression, and rev the motor well past 6000 (6500-7500+).
Of course you cant go wrong with the Yott pump but it's not neccesary. You DO need to modify the stock pump by pressing out the rotor pin and drill and tap for a threaded connection with red loctite. I would only consider the Yott pump if i were to upgrade (not others).
Rob

 

[Monkeywrench]

+1 to what Rob said. The Yott pump is a great peice and is absolutely needed for a true race engine.


Comments on the accusump. I think most people use them as a band-aid and don't really address what the real issue is. Building a well designed, trapped door oil pan, with a crank scraper and windage screen is what needs to be done first. If you're still having problems with oil pressure (which you shouldn't, wiiide cheater r-dots or cantilever slicks), then I would go with the accusump.

 

[TR4nut]

I haven't seen the price on the Yott pump, but I think if I had a failure in a stock engine and needed to replace the pump I'd still lean strongly to his engineered setup since it seems to be better than any aftermarket alternative, regardless of how fast I was planning to flog the engine.

Follow-up not directly related to the oil pump - just curious, but does anyone rev a wet liner past 7500+? Most fot info I've seen suggests majority run to about a 6000 redline, with more exotic rods&pistons maybe 7000 tops. I start getting queasy at about 4500 rpm so I know that's not territory I'm going to be in intentionally!

 

[Monkeywrench]

Short answer yes, but only a few are and they're not doing it all the time. Sometimes it's faster to hold the gear instead of shifting up and then shifting down again.

Here's how a 4cyl TR sounds shifting at ~7000rpm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf1wQnKUA8c (first car at 6:48 and first car at 9:14)

 

[nissanite]

Thanks to everyone. I have sent Mr.Yott an email.

 

[trfourtune]

Racers are a curious bunch.
They really won't tell you how high of revs they REALLY run. I would guess that Mordy Dunst with his titanium rods/long rod engine can run some MAJOR revs, but we'll probably never know exactly. I'm pretty sure that MANY run to 7000.
The accusump is not a bandaid IMHO. It allows you to pre-pressurize the oil BEFORE you start the engine-very good thing. You can close the valve and operate without it if you wish. It allows a small safety cushion in case your oil pressure drops below a certain point. On a very hot day, running your engine hard, you may find that your oil pressure can drop at idle to a worrying degree.
Rob

 

[TR3driver]

I'm pretty sure that MANY run to 7000.

And many break engines :laugh:

 

[Monkeywrench]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Racers are a curious bunch[/QUOTE]

That they are. I'm <span style="text-decoration: underline">really</span> biting my tongue as far as information when I post here, and I still think I give too much away at times. If you notice I'm really general with my statements and its usually just basic prep knowledge. Be wary of what you read on the internet, anyone who is serious isn't talking :wink: .

What I meant by an Accusump being a band-aid, is that most people use it to address oil starvation in corners without first addressing the real problem; the pickup being uncovered by sloshing oil. A baffled pan fixes that.

 

[nissanite]

Thanks everyone. I have a pump on the way.

 

[MDCanaday]

I disagree that an accusump is a "bandaid" Most serious racers use it to prime the bearings to avoid any possible dry starting damages to a very expensive race motor.It will also give you several seconds of pressure if the drive to the oil pump fails(common on MG's).I do agree that if you just rely it to lube you in a corner while the pump sucks air, you will soon be in the grass watching the other racers go by......
MD(mad dog)

 

[64TR4]

Steve Yott developed his upgraded oil pump after I sufferd an oil pump failure on the "tail of the dragon" 2 yrs ago on my '64 TR4. The drive tangs sheared off the top of the pump shaft due to excessive wear on the inner & outer vanes of a rebuild kit w/ about 20,000 highway miles. I was driving in 2nd / 2nd overdrive at fairly high rpm when the pump failed. I had my TR4 flat-bedded to a storage garage and went on to Jekyll Island w/ Steve. Likely he came up with the much improved pump he now provides to avoid me being a passanger in his TR4A agian. Why wouldn't you want to have a better, more reliable oil pump? Loose an oil pump on a mountain road w/ no good place to stop and you get to rebuild an engine - I did!

Jay "64 Triumph TR4 since '67"