TR6 TR6 Starter Question

[Dotanukie]

Hi all,

Haven't been on here in awhile, seems my account got deleted and all my posts lost. Oh well, no biggy.

Anyway, I've had the gearbox out of my 6 for a week or so to do some clutch work and am now in the process of putting it all back together. Along the way I dropped the starter, not hard but it would seem enough to possibly jar something loose in it and finally do it in. It was ancient looking and on it's last legs anyway, I have had the ocassional problem with it in the past. Now it won't engage the flywheel or crank at all. My question is, has anyone gone with one of these modern gear reduction type starters and are they worth the extra money? I've no problem spending extra to get a better part if it has been demonstrated to perform better or be more reliable and longer lasting. Seems britishstarters.com has a good price on these and free shipping also, but if folks here don't see any advantage to going this route I'll save a little and get a rebuilt stock type. Please let me know if you've used or have one of these and what the general opinions are.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[TR3driver]

I had one on my TR3A and loved it. Cranking is much more positive, with less current (meaning it will turn the engine even when the battery is rather low). With the Lucas, there was always that 'grunt' as the first cylinder came over TDC and some doubt if it would keep turning or not. (2.2L & over 10:1 compression kind of aggravated that

) With the gear-drive, it sounded like the engine had no compression at all, it just started spinning faster & faster until it was running.

In fact, that was my only "complaint" ... it no longer sounded like starting a TRactor! More like a jet engine spooling up ...

Don't know how true it is, or if it matters on the street; but I've heard that some of them don't have the wires inside secured against vibration and can fail quickly on the race track. Supposedly the ones that TSi sells do not have that problem (but they are a bit more expensive).
https://www.tsimportedautomotive.com/

That said, the one I got from TRF has worked just fine (even though I was a bit upset to see the 'rebuilt' sticker on what was supposed to be a new starter).

 

[DNK]

Scott, what version you go with has a lot to do with what you have on your car.
All are clockable ,some more than others. I just sold one I bought off eBay because it would not fit with my style of headers. If you have a factory exhaust your probably good to go with any of the main sellers out there.

 

[tdskip]

Hi Scott - welcome back.

While not original a gear reduction starter is a really nice upgrade and I think you'll like how it will work on your car.

 

[RonMacPherson]

I recommend the gear reduction starter. Lighter, more effective, easier to work on if it does break.... Parts are more readily available.

 

[martx-5]

BTW, the guy that sells from Brithishstarters.com is Dr. Marty. Yes, he's a real doctor (pain management) and got into selling parts for British cars to help him pay his way through medical school, and has kept it up ever since. He's an LBC buff, and when I was over his house to pick up my starter, he had an MGB and a GT6. He races the MGB.

 

[Dale]

I also bought one from Dr. Marty for my J-H. Great guy to deal with and an excellent upgrade from any Lucas starter. They seem to have come down in price a little. I got mine for $165.00 shipping included and it arrived in 3 days from New York.

 

[Dotanukie]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm glad to hear that these are worth investing in, I like the idea of upgrading to a more modern and reliable unit. Originality isn't an issue for me, drivablility and reliability are. Also, so many other items on my car right now are non-original that one more thing won't make any difference. Only thing thats got me a little worried is what Don said, I also have a header. I'm wondering if clearance may become an issue, although if the new unit is clockable I may be able to rotate it as needed for clearance. Maybe I'll drop this Dr. Marty an email and ask if he's had any experience with these units on a header equipped car.

 

[DNK]

What type of header are you running

 

[Dotanukie]

What type of header are you running

Don't really know, it was on the car when I bought it. It is chromed steel (although some is flaking off with age), with 6 individual tubes all running down and then horizontally joined at the bottom into a single collector. The starter is positioned right above this collector. Looks like by my rough estimate with the tape about 2.5-3 inches of clearance between the bottom of the stock starter and the header. Can someone guestimate the clearance between a stock starter and the stock exhaust? If they are close then I should be OK with the gear reduction type unit.

 

[DNK]

Sounds like a Pacesetter ala Paul's car.
Most should work for that style.
Make sure whom ever you buy it from knows what header you have and has assured you it will fit.

 

[Dotanukie]

Well, I just received the new starter from Britishstarters.com. Holy smokes, I can't believe how small and light this thing is compared to the stock boat anchor. Anyway, I have a question regarding wiring this now.

According to all of my diagrams, I should have two wires to the starter on a '73. There is the large cable from battery hot and the wire from the ignition switch, in my case this is a white with red stripe. However my car has a third wire, smaller than the ignition wire, smaller female spade terminal end (maybe 1/8"?) and it is white with a yellow stripe. I can't find any reference to a white with yellow stripe near the starter in any of the diagrams in the manuals. My question is, could this perhaps be the ballast wire that I sometimes see referenced for late '76 cars, and somehow prior to my ownership my car was wired with this? If so there seems to be an additional terminal on the new starter for this, I think it is the small one on the opposite side of the solenoid from the ignition wire and it has a small phillips head machine screw through it, for a ring fitting maybe. On my stock starter the terminal for this wire and the ignition terminal were right next to each other. I've got an email into Dr. Marty to confirm this is what this terminal is for on the new starter, but I'd like to know what this white with yellow stripe wire is before hooking it up to anything.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[martx-5]

My wiring diagrams show that the extra wire started in '73. It's there to provide a full 12 volts to the coil when starting. If there are any markings on the terminals, the one for the ignition switch would be marked "S" and the one for the coil would be marked "R"...for relay...which is what it really is. You could use an ohmeter to check which one is which. The "R" or coil terminal will have NO continuity to the battery post or ground, whereas the other terminal will show some continuity to battery post and ground...maybe a couple of ohms. You will have to hook up that third wire.

 

[TR3driver]

As Art says, the white/yellow wire is to bypass the ballast resistor during starting; theoretically for easier starts in cold weather. None of my gear-drive starters has had an output for it.

One solution (supplied with one of my starters) is to install a diode between the white/yellow and the white/red, so that when the white/red is at 12v it also supplies 12v through the diode to the coil.

But I could not tell the difference with the white/yellow simply disconnected (perhaps because "cold weather" around here is 40F

), so I left it that way. If you go this route, be sure to insulate it; as grounding it will kill the engine.

 

[tomshobby]

Got mine from Ted Schumacher at TSI. https://www.tsimportedautomotive.com/
It fits perfect and I am completely happy with it.

 

[tdskip]

Nice looking engine there Tom!

 

[tomshobby]

Thanks for the complement.

About 15,000 miles on it now and here is a pic I took a couple weeks ago.

 

[DNK]

Note about Tom's starter and his style of headers which I believe are Pacesetters.
There is plenty of room as shown. With the other popular brand the Falcon or TT style headers not even close to as much space.
Teds headers are the preferred style to use. I still had to reclock mine to get my preferred fit.

 

[Dotanukie]

OK, I spoke to Dr. Marty at British starters and he told me the white with yellow wire was to coil, as had been said here. He also said the little terminal with the machine screw was for this purpose. I just installed it and hooked it all up and viola, she cranks like a champ, and boy does that thing really turn the motor! Anyway, here is a picture of the new unit beside the old one:

I had plenty of clearance between the starter and the header, no issues there. This unit is clockable though, in case I had needed to do that at least it's possible. Only thing I had to do was make up a small wire to run from the coil terminal on the starter to the factory wire. Since this terminal is on the underside of the solenoid from the other two connections (unlike the stock unit) the factory wiring would not reach, plus it was a different connector type. I made up about a 3-4 inch wire with a small ring fitting on one end and a male spade on the other, no big deal.

As usual thanks to all the folks here your help, much appreciated.