Tinster Stupid Question No. 783

[Tinster]

Good thing I'm not afraid to ask stupid questions.
I finally have a functional TR6 as a result.

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif

This is a clutch question since replacing Sr. Pedro's
busted up clutch was the single most expensive, time
consuming and royal pain in the butt item during the
2 year restoration. I don't soon want to repeat this
nightmare.

I have always driven a clutch car as my primary daily
driver. I live in a densely populated urban area where it
might take 1 1/2 hours of stop and go driving to cover 10
miles.

The TR6 seems to have a weakness when it comes to clutch
replacement as a common item. What wears out first? The
throw out bearing or the clutch plates?

In an urban situation, what driving techniques can be used
to extend the life of a TR6 clutch?

Thanks as always,

dale

 

[jjbunn]

Interesting question (to which I have no response) ... it makes me wonder if there are any TR6s with automatic transmissions fitted.

 

[Don Elliott]

Dale - If you live at the top of a hill, let Amos coast - all the way down to the harbor. Getting home may be the problem.

Yes. About 10 or more years ago, Steve Hedke of So. Calif. put the automatic from a Triumph 2500 sedan into the TR6 of his father when he had a stroke and was partially paralysed on his left side and he couldn't use a clutch.

Steve runs a Land Rover shop.

 

[Guest]

1. Drive like an old lady.*

2. Never, never ride the clutch.








*(Let me clarify this old lady comment. My mother just made 90. She drives like a maniac. Last week she took out some barricades in front of WalMart, on her way to the casino. She didn't even stop to check her car. Took off the front grill, the right front fender, mirror and most of the passenger door. Kept on going to the casino 25 miles away. The insurance company gave her a rental, which she promptly wrecked. So, don't drive like my mother.)

 

[Banjo]

Well, by design the clutch disc should be the "wearable" item that goes first. Like the pads and shoes in your brake system.
But the throwout bearings sometimes beat the discs.
As for what you can do, Just make sure not to "ride" the pedal. Make your shifts quickly and smoothly, try not to slip the clutch too much. you don't need to make the ride uncomfortable, but for heavens sake dont use the clutch to hold the car at a stop sign or light, on a hill.
you could also try to use your brakes over down shifting, although I don't know how much that'll save.
Every so often I'll have someone brag to me about how long thay can extend thier brake life by using the clutch.
that's wonderful. Now which of those two is cheaper and easier to replace?

Relax Tinster. You shoulden't be back into that clutch for a looong time.

 

[Brosky]

Bill, I take it that she won't have use of the TR6 during her car's stint in the body shop?

Dale, don't worry about it. Drive it normally and you'll be fine for a lot of miles. My wife learned to drive a standard on ours and it lasted 53,000 miles. And that was in and out of summer city traffic in Boston and Providence for a lot of years.

I replaced it because of the chatter when I pulled out, not because the clutch was worn out. It still had a lot of friction material on the disc, but the flywheel was glazed.

And as Bill says, never ride the clutch, which in a car with a hydraulic setup means "Keep your left foot on the floor when you're not in the act of shifting".

 

[TR3driver]

The TR6 seems to have a weakness when it comes to clutch replacement as a common item.

IMO, very few of those problems are actually caused by wear in the clutch itself.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]What wears out first? The throw out bearing or the clutch plates?[/QUOTE]The TOB should outlast the friction plate several times over. However, there are very few people willing to not replace it "while I'm in there". And there have been several batches of defective bearings (that fail relatively quickly) sold. Possibly there still are.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]In an urban situation, what driving techniques can be used
to extend the life of a TR6 clutch? [/QUOTE]IMO, just drive normally and don't worry about it. The only thing I try to avoid is using the clutch to hold the car on a hill/onramp; otherwise I do all the "bad" things with my TR3A (which has a TR6 clutch in it) and clutches still last virtually forever.

Drove daily for several years constantly riding the clutch; because the taper pin was broken and riding it meant I didn't have to pump it up again every time I wanted to shift. Didn't seem to hurt anything, but I did change the plate & TOB when I replaced the pin, "just because". But of course, it depends on how heavily you ride it ... I'm pretty good at hearing when the clutch starts to slip while some folks don't notice until the car won't move.

 

[amcboy]

Good advice all...

Especially downshifting!

People: Your clutch is not a brake.

Compression braking is for trucks! (with specially designed hardware)

Fast road racers only downshift to be in the right gear for exiting and accelerating from a turn.

Homework: Read "The Unfair Advantage" by ledgendary road racer Mark Donahue. Slightly technical, but veeery enlightening.

DISCLAIMER: Not trying to stir something up here, just pointing out how others have improved performance and reliability by abandoning a technique leftover from when car brakes were slightly less effective than bicycle coaster brakes. This is my opinion and mine alone. The above named reference is not associated with me personally, or endorsed by any sanctioning body that I am aware of. Your personal tastes and experiences may vary from mine. What you do is your business. I'm simply providing a semi-technical reference to the afore mentioned technique. Your mileage may vary. But your clutch and drive train will thank you (IMHO).

 

[amcboy]

If you are interested in the book. I can lead you to a place where you can get a free .pdf download of it.

PM me directly please.

Also see the disclaimer above.

 

[Guest]

Ooouuuhh, but it sounds so good to hear that backtalk from the exhaust when you down shift into a tight curve. Isn't that why we restore these babies???

 

[amcboy]

Technicalities aside, yep, it does sound like a 50s F-1 car coming to the hairpin at Monaco...

Pretty spiffy indeed...

 

[hondo402000]

learn to shift with out using the clutch, wouldnt recommend it, but it is possible, My volvo p-1800 I had back in college I got really good at changing gears without the clutch, got to get the enging speed right and put pressure on the gear shift and you can feel it start to come out of one gear, you cannot slam it into the next but put pressure on the shifter to the next gear and once the sycnros line up it will pop into the next gear with out grinding, again cheaper to replace a clutch instead of a transmission, but if you drop a clutch somewhere you can drive it home with this method, starting the car at stop lights is a little difficult, you have to have the car in 1st and crank the car in gear to get going then shift gears as above, modern cars you cannot do this cause they have a switch on the clutch and the car wont start unless the clutch is depressed. I got a friends 65 mustang to the repair shop this way

 

[Tinster]

Hondo-

Funny you should mention shifting w/out clutch.
Many times, braking toward a traffic light, I downshift
from 4th, to 3rd, to 2nd w/out clutch as the RPMs
coordinate. I've done the start in 1st in a few of my
older vehicles when the clutch cables snapped. Kinda
jerks you back and forth a bit until the engine catches!!

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I think my main question is:

1. In stop and go traffic, does it wear out the clutch
plates or throw out bearing while sitting stopped with
the clutch pedal held to the floor? That is my normal
driving style.

2. If I sit in neutral with pedal off the floor, that will
add one extra pedal push needed to get the car moving again.

Which driving concept yield less wear and tear on the
clutch components? 1 or 2 ?

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I never "ride" the clutch because I have always driven a
clutch car. But I DO downshift driving into curves.
I hold the car on uphill traffic lights with the handbrake
NOT the clutch.

I have to say, that as fragile and unreliable as these
Triumphs seem to be, I am surprised how many have made it
to year 2008.

d

 

[NutmegCT]

Aha! Simple solution: Dale puts TR, luggage, and Wendy on cruise ship from PR to Miami.

Unloads at Miami. Buys condo. Then puts TR in gear, enters Interstate highway system, drives east-west only in the southern USA, and hardly ever shifts again.

Edit: and of course rents his home in that PR gated community to BCF, as the official BCF Caribbean vacation house.

Voila!

T.

 

[TR4nut]

I think my main question is:

1. In stop and go traffic, does it wear out the clutch
plates or throw out bearing while sitting stopped with
the clutch pedal held to the floor? That is my normal
driving style.

2. If I sit in neutral with pedal off the floor, that will
add one extra pedal push needed to get the car moving again.

Which driving concept yield less wear and tear on the
clutch components? 1 or 2 ?

d

Dale-

Yeah, I always wondered about that too - I'm a #2 driver, probably because my leg gets tired holding down the pedal. Also, I figured #2 is the safest, I'm not accidentally going anywhere unless I want to. And in terms of wear, there is less time on the throwout bearing, and less pressure against all the hydraulic components. But I'm sure its just a matter of what you are used to.

Randy

 

[Bugeye58]

Dale, the major downside to sitting stopped with the clutch to the floor isn't wear to the clutch, but rather the thrust washers. With the clutch pedal down, you are pushing the crank forward, causing pressure to be maintained on the thrust surfaces.
Not a good idea in any vehicle. Take the extra step to pop it in neutral when at a standstill.
Jeff

 

[angelfj1]

As a good friend of mine once said, " brake pads are a lot cheaper than clutches and tranmissions". The occasion- his first ride in my brand new 1967 - 4A, when I was bragging about how fast I could slow done by down shifting from 4th to 2nd. Ah - the blissful stupidity of youth!!! That was 41 years ago,and I was a 19 year old college freshman.

 

[Tinster]

With the clutch pedal down, you are pushing the crank forward, causing pressure to be maintained on the thrust surfaces.Jeff

SAY NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TWs and blown engines scare the pants off me.
From now on, I'll RPM power shift whenever possible
and do the old 1st to 4th routine.

TWs<<<<<<<<<<BLARGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/pukeface.gif

 

[Bugeye58]

Dale, I wasn't speaking to shifting, only to holding the clutch down while at a stop.
Jeff

 

[NutmegCT]

For what it's worth, my dad taught me to:

(1) drive in heavy slow traffic *very* slowly, staying in 1st gear and no shifting when at all possible, and

(2) when stopped, shift to neutral and release the clutch, to reduce wear on the bearings.

And when he gave me my first driving lessons, he gave me two primary rules:

(1) assume that half the other drivers on the road are drunk, and
(2) assume the rest are crazy.

All four rules have worked for me, for nearly 50 years of driving.

T.