Another stupid question from your old friend

[jlaird]

Say, how do you determine the condition of synchro rings in a rib case tranny.

The tranny is disassembled so i could take a pic of the inside of them. How do you tell??

 

[Gerard]

Jack,

You need to measure with a feeler gauge between the baulk ring and the face of the gear. It'll range from .000 to .050, maybe .055. I don't remember what the upper limit is, but I don't think I've ever found any higher than that. You're looking for anything above .020. Well, I do anyway.. some say less.

Make sure the ring is on the cone evenly or you'll get a false reading.

 

[jlaird]

Thank you Gerard, appreciate your info.

 

[Gerard]

Thank you Gerard, appreciate your info.

:thumbsup:

Let me know what you find.

 

[jlaird]

i found one with no clearance and the others all over the place. Even moved em around to see if that made a difference, it did not.

New ones will be needed along with a reverse gear that is well rounded as well. All else looks good, very good, now keep in mind I am not a tranny guy and will have an expert, if I can find one on the south east coast put it together.

If you are a SE USA tranny builder speak up please.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Sounds like your waiting on Mike Miller to comment?

 

[Gerard]

i found one with no clearance and the others all over the place. Even moved em around to see if that made a difference, it did not.

All the baulk rings are the same, so moving them should make a difference as to which gear has the better gap. If you swap the baulk ring and you gap is still zero, you may have a bad cone on the gear, though that's unusual. If that's the case, you'll probably need a replacement gear as well.

See my tech tip page about new baulk rings/synchros.

https://gerardsgarage.com/Garage/Tech/baulk_rings/baulkringsWS.htm

 

[elrey]

Excellent site Gerard! I grew up at Clement and Arguello, my first ride was a 65 midget. What part of town are you in?

 

[DrEntropy]

What puzzles me is why on earth the Bright Spark engineers who spec'd the '83+ replacement designs would even THINK scintered iron wedge shapes would last ten minutes. NO surface area, quick deterioration and subsequent "walking" up the cone to uselessness!!

Just how many trans R&R's does it take to negate the $35 savings per failed ring?

About ONE, IMHO. :madder:

 

[elrey]

Unbelievable! Not even nearly one.

 

[jlaird]

yep Gerard, I read that on your site.

Which is better than very nice by the way.

Oh yea, read all about your rear seal, neat. Will be fun one day to play with one.
Next pull will take care of that.

 

[Spridget64SC]

Gerard's numerical syncro/cone information is good information. Since you have the gear box apart, it should be relatively straight forward to perform the measurements. My experience is both syncros and cones are wear out culprits. If gap goes up (from the installed syncro/cone pair) when you exchange syncros, then the syncro is a bit better, if the gap decreases, then the syncro is more worn.

Good used gears are available in lieu of new ones. New ones can be found as well. Check the dog teeth on the better gears. Need to be "pointy". Same with the inside of the 2nd gear side of the 1/2/R slider and the 3/4 slider.

Look at all the pieces. A lot of the first gear problems are caused by worn teeth on either or both the 1/2/R slider and the laygear.

HTH,
Mike Miller

 

[jlaird]

Here are all the gears except for the syncros and the lay gear.

Can you see well enough to see problems?

 

[jlaird]

Shucks I am not even sure what all these are called.

Bottom middle, reverse gear

Middle row, is First gear assy and gear.

Know not the others.

No clue about dog gears. Arf arf, gesh.

Think what I will do is send the gears to Mike so he can locate some used pieces as required for next summers fun. Or maybe I will just pack up the whole bit and send it on. So he can play on a cold winters eve. Hehe.

 

[jlaird]

Here is the Lay Gear, even with a magnifying glass i can find no wear.

Hay, this is good fun, and I am learning.

 

[taskadog]

Jack,
These guys are in South Florida. Ken has lots of manual transmission experience and they are both nice fellows.

All Star Auto Service
1400 10th Ct, West Palm Beach, FL 33403 (561) 844-1106

https://www.allstarautoservice.net/

Phil, "no financial interest"

 

[Gerard]

Excellent site Gerard! I grew up at Clement and Arguello, my first ride was a 65 midget. What part of town are you in?

No kidding? At one time years ago, I lived at 4th and Clement. Just up the street from "Fizzies" What a nightmare!

I live in the Sunset/Parkside now... 22 years in one place, almost 10 where I am now.

I have a very good friend in SLO also.

Glad you like the site...

 

[Spridget64SC]

Overall, the gears don't look too bad, but there are some areas of the gears that need inspection that don't show. Also, did you have a 3rd gear in the box? The needle bearing race surfaces need inspection as well as the slide gear inner teeth. Reverse looks more beat up than the first gear slider.

There are a lot of items in the gear box that need to be checked. Also, all part numbers need to be checked for compatiablility with each other. 22G200's can pretty much interchange with 22G1100's, but not with any 22A's or some of the early 22G's (Morris Minor/early Sprite boxes). Some mini gears will interchange and some not. There was some pretty good information available that listed all these part numbers.

At the end of the day, the best thing to do is to send me all the internal parts, pieces and components and see what is reusable.

Still cold, wet in the AM, but sunny in the PM here at Road America. Start the trek home tomorrow after a stop in Peoria to pick up some parts.

Take care,
Mike Miller

 

[taskadog]

Cold at RA?
You should have been at Midget 50.
We would have paid good money for a little cold in July!
Phil