Stock 4-Speed Gearbox or Rivergate 5-speed???

[NardisCNC]

I know this is probably a subject of much debate...

My '66 Midget currently has a 1098 with the orig 4-speed gearbox, and I'm sure to some it would be considered a Sin to change anything. I also have an extra 1275 with thoughts of Maybe trying the Rivergate conversion in conjunction with this engine. The car as it is (stock), is my first LBC, so I have nothing to compare anything to.

I also liked the idea of maybe doing some performance upgrades to the 1275 and it appears this engine lends itself to this more so than the 1098. Another note: If I did make any changes I would definitely keep the original trans and engine so I could bring it back to stock. I'm just trying to figure out if shelling out the $$ on a 5-speed conversion would be worth it.

Whats are some of your thoughts on this? Those who HAVE driven both and have felt the differences. Any input is Greatly appreciated!!

Nardis

 

[vagt6]

Nardis, I think it largely depends on what kind of driving you intend to do, whether you want to keep the car in a "correct" and original condition, and of course, your bank account. :lol:

For example, if you intend to do a lot of long-ish road trips at highway speeds, the 5 speed is mighty nice and it's really useful at prolonged speeds above 60 MPH. My MK III 1275 Midget has a Datsun 5 speed with the 3.90 gears and turns a comfy 3,300-ish RPM at about 70 MPH. Most of my highway driving is more in the 60 MPH range, though, and I avoid Interstate like the plague in the Midget.

However, the stock gearbox is just fine for normal cruising. And, ring and pinion gears down to 3.55 are available (e.g., Frontline Spridget in England, etc.) if you wish to go that route.

The 5 speed conversion is very expensive and may cost roughly 50% of the market value of a nice Midget to install. That's impossible to justify from a practical viewpoint, but, who cares about practical, it's an LBC!.

Good luck, let us know . . .

 

[Trevor Jessie]

If you plan on doing any touring in the car (drives over three hours with sustained high speed 65 mph+) then a datsun transmission makes the car great. However, for local cruising on the backroads I'd put the money towards "hopping up" the 1275.

BTW the Louisville British Bash 2010 car show registration is now open: www.britishbash.com

 

[Guest]

And, ring and pinion gears down to 3.55 are available (e.g., Frontline Spridget in England, etc.) if you wish to go that route.

.

~oh~ ~REALLY~ !!!!

Dude, I love you !!!! I had no idea that was still avalible. Thanks !!!

 

[NardisCNC]

I guess my MAIN concern is this: Does it change the feel and experience much of driving it stock?? (not counting the 5th gear aspect) And for better or worse?
I'd hate to lose any vibe it has now!! Although most of my driving is back roads that 4th (and lower) gears will handle fine, I do find myself wanting a 5th gear from time to time. And I would like to do some touring occasionally. And of course I'd like more power

Also please correct me if I'm wrong in my expectations, but I figure the Rivergate conversion will cost roughly $1500 (Kit and rebuilt trans) considering I do all the work myself. And a while back the folks at Rivergate said I would want to use at least a stock 1275 with a 5-speed to have the adequate power needed. In other words don't do the conversion with the 1098.

 

[Guest]

Doesn't BillM offer a kit for less?

here's the breakdown of ratios.

3.90 @ 3500rpm 62.41 MPH
3.70 @ 3500rpm 65.79
3.55 @ 3500rpm 68.57

This with a 22.5" dia tire (175/70/13)

 

[Trevor Jessie]

First gear doesn't whine and 1st and 2nd are a bit lower than the stock ribcase.
I think a 1098 would pull the car in 5th gear fine (esp if the car had a 4.22 rear end)

I think it is an improvement over stock, but everyone has their own preference.

 

[Guest]

Here's a link to a gear claculator:

https://www.wallaceracing.com/gear-speed.php

I don't know the final drive ratio of the 5 speed, but I think it's around .85

The above figures are for the 4 speed. I forgot 4.22 which is

4.22 @ 3500 RPM 50.47 MPH

@ 4K, everything is 8 MPH faster.

 

[lbc_newbie]

Doesn't BillM offer a kit for less?

here's the breakdown of ratios.

3.90 @ 3500rpm 62.41 MPH
3.70 @ 3500rpm 65.79
3.55 @ 3500rpm 68.57

This with a 22.5" dia tire (175/70/13)

Though BillM is quite experienced in installing them, I think you mean PaulA as offering a 5 speed kit. He is at PAsgeirsson@att.net. He has everything you need. Not sure about the ring/pinion though.

 

[bill_young]

Every owner that I know that's installed the Riverside kit and Datsun 5 speed says they wouldn't ever go back. The love it. Drivability around town isn't changed to any extent except for having a synchro first gear and the highway cruisning is great. If you can find a transmission (they're getting hard to locate) I'd say go for it, I don't think you'd ever regret the swap and even if you do you'll make money if you want to resell the transmission most likely since they're so rare.

 

[Guest]

I agree. Rarer than frog's hair 'round here.

I could ~SWEAR~ BillM makes adapters, he even has a jig IIRC. Me brain aint been fir'rin right past few years tho..

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Yes Bill has a sort of roll-yer-own kit.

 

[198686d]

Yes, it definitely changes the "vibe" when going from stock 4spd to 5. I don't take hours long drives in the BE, but I do enter "ralllies" and drive around the area.

Wouldn't take a 5 spd. if was given to me and even installed.

dave

 

[Guest]

Yes, it definitely changes the "vibe" when going from stock 4spd to 5. I don't take hours long drives in the BE, but I do enter "ralllies" and drive around the area.

Wouldn't take a 5 spd. if was given to me and even installed.

dave

REALLY ?!?!?!?! Wow, that's a surprise! I never thought I'd hear someone say that! I would have never thought it would have made that big of a difference in "vibe".

I don't want to do an engine swap for the same reason, but I sure would like more reliable power.

 

[Gundy]

Yes, it definitely changes the "vibe" when going from stock 4spd to 5. I don't take hours long drives in the BE, but I do enter "ralllies" and drive around the area.

Wouldn't take a 5 spd. if was given to me and even installed.

dave

REALLY ?!?!?!?! Wow, that's a surprise! I never thought I'd hear someone say that! I would have never thought it would have made that big of a difference in "vibe".

I don't want to do an engine swap for the same reason, but I sure would like more reliable power.

I'm just saying...sc/cr is pretty reliable. Definitely a vibe changer. Well more of a whine/vibration than a vibe.

I like to think of it as good vibrations.

 

[Billm]

Actually I do make a kit- It fits the same as the rivergate and Morrisservice (and MiniMania too).
Here is the write-up:
https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/u...haul#Post165419

BillM

NardisCNC- if you do as your handle implies then you should have no trouble copying my kit, the hole pattern is included in the write-up.
Bill

 

[Westfield_XI]

I think you have to ask yourself if there had been a 5-speed back in the day, would it have been installed in the car from new? My feeling is that it would!

 

[Guest]

NardisCNC- if you do as your handle implies then you should have no trouble copying my kit, the hole pattern is included in the write-up.
Bill

...and for those who can't, how much would this kit be?

( I didn't see a price in the write up, but I just glanced.)

 

[Billm]

$100.00
But it is only for the A-block motors, haven't done a 1500 version yet.
Bill

 

[Gundy]

I think you have to ask yourself if there had been a 5-speed back in the day, would it have been installed in the car from new? My feeling is that it would!

That's my tea leaf backcast too.