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Stock 4-Speed Gearbox or Rivergate 5-speed???

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Billm said:
$100.00
But it is only for the A-block motors, haven't done a 1500 version yet.
Bill
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WHAT.....THAT'S IT ?!?!?!?!?!

WHAT A GREAT DEAL !!!!

Bill, I have to admit, you're a first class guy !!!

Not only do you offer FREE specs for folks to make one, you also give others the oppotunity to buy one at a STUPID LOW price. You are truly a credit to this "hobby" and an outstanding guy. I just wish you lived closer.

Now about that 1500 kit.... :jester: (just kidding)
 
Except that my "new" '76 Midget just seems to have broken the crank- the tranny seems to be in fine shape!!
Anyone know how often the 1500 crank breaks at the flywheel?
BillM

(Now that I need to pull the engine/tranny maybe I WILL think about a 1500 conversion)
??
 
I am sure the experts will chime in soon, but isn't there something about a split shim or washer on the crank that is problematic on these motors?
 
Billm said:
Except that my "new" '76 Midget just seems to have broken the crank- the tranny seems to be in fine shape!!
Anyone know how often the 1500 crank breaks at the flywheel?
BillM

(Now that I need to pull the engine/tranny maybe I WILL think about a 1500 conversion)
??
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WOW! We have our work cut out for us up here in the NW. I feel an O.S.H.I.T. coming on. RickB and I need to get our 5 speeds in, you need to get your engine/trans out..... name the time and place. Always room at my house.
 
Well, there's that half thrust washer that can be problematic if it wears out...but even if it dropped to the bottom of the oil pan, how on earth the crank would snap is puzzling. I'd be interested to find that out too.

A 5-speed conversion for a 1500 would have to be really good, and a painless drop-in job, if it's gonna compete with a Spitfire overdrive tranny, IMHO.
 
bthompson said:
how on earth the crank would snap is puzzling. I'd be interested to find that out too.

quote]

Dad's '52 Willys broke the crank diagonally at #4 rod journal. I have ~NEVER~ heard such a horrible racket in my life. Only the rod was holding it together. Once we broke it loose, the crank fell apart. Dad said it was a previoulsy welded crank as it was way under reusable spec last time he built it, so the machine shop welded it up to have fresh metal to work with. This is ~supposedly~ why welding a crank is bad. I've heard it both ways as if it's bad or not. One cause, torisional vibrations. Hap should have more knowledge on the subject. All I know is what I'm told on this. I think I've seen a broken crank snout before, but I don't remember. Seems I remember the crank spinning w/o the timing bits moving or the crank snout. A defect in stock I would assume.


Bill, Why do you suspect a broken crank?
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Because when I turn the starter motor with the car in gear the car moves forward but the engine doesn't turn.
I had just driven the car around the block (first time out under it's own power) and broke the clutch free (it had been frozen, but isn't now). When I stopped in the driveway it died with a very strange "whirring" sound and then wouldn't start.
Appears that there is a disconnect between the crank and the flywheel.
BillM
 
Billm said:
Because when I turn the starter motor with the car in gear the car moves forward but the engine doesn't turn.
I had just driven the car around the block (first time out under it's own power) and broke the clutch free (it had been frozen, but isn't now). When I stopped in the driveway it died with a very strange "whirring" sound and then wouldn't start.
Appears that there is a disconnect between the crank and the flywheel.
BillM
Click to expand...

Maybe it just sheared the flywheel bolts and the whirring sound was the flywheel spinning on the crankshaft. Breaking the clutch loose prolly the cause, and the motor would have trouble running/idling w/o the weight of the flywheel.
 
I'm in a unique position on this subject so thought I'd chime in. I currently own a 66 midget with a 1275 and a 5speed and a 65 that is stock.
I agree with Mark that it depends on how you drive. If going a long distance in a hurry the 5 speed car wins out but for enjoyable local cruising on scenic highways we usually take the stock car. As to power I don't really notice much difference. A 10cc engine is only rated 6 hp under a 1275. I suppose if you have nothing but freeways to get to anywhere then go for the 5 and as much power as you can. Or??
KA.
 
Billm said:
Because when I turn the starter motor with the car in gear the car moves forward but the engine doesn't turn.
BillM
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It's a Midget hybrid !!!

I'm not sayin' the crank's not broke, but I agree it might be flywheel bolts. A broken crank should make a HORRIBLE sound.

Maybe PO overtightened the bolts and...

I can't wait for you to pull the motor and see.

Either way, sounds like a new crank.
 
It might be that the flywheel bolts got loose and then sheared. I saw this a couple times in the minis where people were hot rodding them and dumping the clutch. Once that happens the flywheel will spin on the crank because of how it sets and move the rest of the drive line with the starter. The crank would have to break at a certain spot to do this, but that might be it too. Take pictures.
 
nomad said:
I'm in a unique position on this subject so thought I'd chime in. I currently own a 66 midget with a 1275 and a 5speed and a 65 that is stock.
I agree with Mark that it depends on how you drive. If going a long distance in a hurry the 5 speed car wins out but for enjoyable local cruising on scenic highways we usually take the stock car. As to power I don't really notice much difference. A 10cc engine is only rated 6 hp under a 1275. I suppose if you have nothing but freeways to get to anywhere then go for the 5 and as much power as you can. Or??
KA.
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OK, what if you had ONLY ONE car and wanted to do ALL of the above type of driving? Would you have any reservations about the 5-speed??

And to those who aren't in favor of the 5-speeds, what is it you don't like? We're talking strictly on a mechanical level (regardless of originality / collectability). And for comparison sake, let just say were dealing with gears 1-4 on both transmissions.
 
NardisCNC said:
nomad said:
I'm in a unique position on this subject so thought I'd chime in. I currently own a 66 midget with a 1275 and a 5speed and a 65 that is stock.
I agree with Mark that it depends on how you drive. If going a long distance in a hurry the 5 speed car wins out but for enjoyable local cruising on scenic highways we usually take the stock car. As to power I don't really notice much difference. A 10cc engine is only rated 6 hp under a 1275. I suppose if you have nothing but freeways to get to anywhere then go for the 5 and as much power as you can. Or??
KA.
Click to expand...

OK, what if you had ONLY ONE car and wanted to do ALL of the above type of driving? Would you have any reservations about the 5-speed??

And to those who aren't in favor of the 5-speeds, what is it you don't like? We're talking strictly on a mechanical level (regardless of originality / collectability). And for comparison sake, let just say were dealing with gears 1-4 on both transmissions.
Click to expand...
Also 4th in the datsun transmission is exactly the same as 4th in the original, so if you don't like 5th drive in 4th and you have the exact same thing as you had before except with the optional 5th on the highway. I don't see what is not to like here either.
 
My biggest complaint with the 5-speed is that 1st and 2nd gear are too low. Otherwise it is a great match for the car.
 
Well I guess what I am saying is I'm in a quandry about this as well. The stock setup requires that I stick to 2 lanes and in general a more relaxed manner of driving which I enjoy. So if I were owning these cars for short weekend drives I believe I would stick with stock but since I like to put on many miles I suppose when I redo the 65 it will end up with the 5 speed. The engine needs to have something done with it anyway. As to having any reservations to the 5speed I have none other than agreeing with Trevor. You won't have as light of clutch or as neat looking shifter and you will be shelling out a considerable amount of change but at speed you will appreciate the 5.
KA.
 
Trevor Jessie said:
My biggest complaint with the 5-speed is that 1st and 2nd gear are too low. Otherwise it is a great match for the car.
Click to expand...
That lower low gear worked out well with my 3.55 gear. I had concerns about that but it seems about like the old 1st with the 3.90 as far as I can tell. With my set up 3rd is about where my old fourth gear was and then I have the higher 4th and then the OD 5th.
 
I might add that first gear in the Datsun gearbox is VERY low: it's like a tractor gear. I haven't tried, but I'm pretty sure the engine would redline in first at around 20-ish MPH.

I start out in second gear anytime I'm stopped on even a slight decline, it's just as good a first gear then. In traffic you can ride second gear almost down to idle RPM. I don't use first unless I'm totally stopped.

The widely spaced gear ratios take a bit of getting used to, especially for me because I'm used to driving a MINI Cooper with VERY close ratios, and Triumph GT6s, with nicely spaced ratios.

Originality is a great goal, keeping these cars as they were built. My hat's off to anyone who strives for originality. It's very tempting to modify these cars and IMO takes a bit of self-discipline to keep them original.

My Midget is not, but I sure do like it the way it is. :yesnod:
 
The upside to the low 1st/2nd gear is that I can quickly get from one red light to the next. :wink:

Go to the 2:55 mark in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GWufFToTSs

It is hard to tell in the video, but I wound second gear out to about 50 mph. Then the shift to third you'll notice a considerable drop in rpms.
 
High first gear has it's downside but it is nice to find second
right there, then 3rd. Just saying.
:driving:
 
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