Ok, so what's the deal with my starter pinion?

[jdubois]

Now I know my main problem- the wrong pinion gear on my starter. But I don't yet have enough info to solve it. Jeff Zorn from LBCarCo says the part number of the starter I ordered from him is right, and it should be the right starter. He suggests perhaps my car has been modified somehow. I can't see how, but I figured I'd check with the knowledgeable folks here.

This is a crude picture of the difference between the old pinion which worked correctly and the new pinion which binds with the clutch pressure plate. Which one is right? And how'd I end up with the wrong one (either initially or now).

Perhaps I should just give up and buy one of the new gear reduction starters. But I'm stubborn and don't want to let this thing beat me!

 

[NutmegCT]

Jeremy - didn't you say your mom had spent $35,000 or so on "improvements" to the car?

I wonder how many parts are non-standard, or jerry-rigged replacements, etc.

My own bullet-nose starter gave me fits when I first got the car, including the engine appearing to be 'frozen'. That's why I first suggested your problem was due to the starter. Interesting also that one of the teeth of the ring was chipped, due to my original starter being poorly repaired and not quite re-placed correctly. (There are shims that are used to get the pinion gear properly set in relation to the ring.)

Do you have any documentation showing all that was done for that $35K?

Tom

 

[TR3driver]

You wouldn't be the first to get the wrong starter out of the right box ...

 

[jdubois]

I wonder how many parts are non-standard, or jerry-rigged replacements, etc.

Yeah, I'm certainly willing to accept that I might have the wrong starter. But then I've got the wrong clutch too, as there's no way this starter will work with this clutch. I looked at the possibility of a shim plate maybe adjusting the location of the pinion, but by the time you clear the clutch housing, you're already engaging the ring gear.

Do you have any documentation showing all that was done for that $35K?

That's a good thought. I've got the old records stored away somewhere. I don't know how well documented it is, or what my mother did or didn't keep. But it's worth a look to see if they mentioned it. I suppose I could call them also and see what records they've got.

If'd I'd only caught this problem before I returned my old core, I could have just switched pinions and I'd be all set.

 

[jdubois]

You wouldn't be the first to get the wrong starter out of the right box ...

Yeah, maybe. But this is actually the second new starter. I sent the first one back at the beginning of all this thinking I'd just got a dud. This one (from a different supplier) is the same as the last one.

 

[Andrew Mace]

Well, we could be methodical about this and ask what is the (presumably) Lucas part number on the starter, and which ring gear do you have, and stuff like that! :wink:

 

[TR3driver]

If'd I'd only caught this problem before I returned my old core, I could have just switched pinions and I'd be all set.

Just a thought, a friend of mine had a somewhat similar problem with his TR3 starter, and contacted the company that had assembled it. He offered to buy the pinion he needed (as he had actually ordered the wrong thing, DPO had switched flywheels), but they gave it to him!

 

[jdubois]

Here's a shot of the problem (you can see the marks on the pressure plate where the starter chewed into it)...

 

[starauto]

There are two versions of that same starter. The early version used a full pinon and was used on the Lucas starter number 25521. The later version of that same starter is a Lucas starter number 25550 that has the pinion shaved down like the one you need. You definetly have the wrong pinion drive and I would recommend not to use it as you can damage your flywheel.
If you want to see the pictures of these starters please visit my web site www.starautoelectric.com. Just to let you know I refurbish these starters on an everyday day basis.

Mike Martinez
Star Auto Electric Company

 

[jdubois]

Part numbers on the starter is 25578D / M416G. The ring gear is the later bolt on style. The place who remanufactured the starter was British Rotating Electrical out of Phoenix.

 

[jdubois]

Just to let you know I refurbish these starters on an everyday day basis.

Awesome, Mike! Is it better to switch this starter out, or just replace the pinion gear?

 

[starauto]

It depend on how good of a remanufacuterd starter you bought. To switch the pinion out you will need to dissamble the starter completly in order to loosen the nut on the end of the shaft to remove the pinion you have to hold the armature on a vise to prevent it from spining. We have refurbished starters ready to go if you want to go that route however we would need to obtain a starter core form you.

 

[jdubois]

We have refurbished starters ready to go if you want to go that route however we would need to obtain a starter core form you.

As long as you'll take this one as a core for the other one, I might just take you up on that.

 

[starauto]

The 25578 might have been used also by Lucas although many starter field coil cases can be interchanged whst you need to have on the starter is the exact same pinion as you had on your original starter which is the one with have of the teeth shaved down the rest of the starter is the same.

 

[starauto]

Yes no problem we can take that core if you need further information you can e-mail me at: starautoelectric@aol.com

Mike

 

[jdubois]

Ok, Mike has at least cleared up my problem. I needed a 25550 style starter, and received 25521 style ones instead. But how could two different suppliers (Moss and another small shop) be sending out the wrong starters and nobody have noticed before? It's not like it's a rare car and nobody needed starters...

Anyway, on Monday I'll either buy the correct starter from Mike, or I'll buy a gear reduction starter instead.

 

[NutmegCT]

<span style="font-style: italic">"But how could two different suppliers (Moss and another small shop) be sending out the wrong starters and nobody have noticed before?"</span>

I guess you could also ask ... how did Moss and the other place know which of the two starters to send?

Did they know the commission number of the car, and any of its previous history?

Tom

 

[Andrew Mace]

Interestingly enough, my Lucas catalogue tells me that the 25521 starter is for some big Healeys, various Sunbeam-Talbots, etc., etc. As Mike notes, various bits can be interchanged between starters, but as originally built, 25521 is not a TR starter, but 25550 is (for the later ones, of course).

 

[jdubois]

how did Moss and the other place know which of the two starters to send?

The one Moss sent was the one I ordered, for the later style starter, which I matched to my comm. number using their catalog. But, here's the thing, the style they sent me (the 'long pinion' style), from what I can tell, <span style="font-style: italic">wasn't ever used on the TR</span>. It fits the AH 3000! The earlier TR2/3 starter was a completely different design.

(I see Andy figured out the same thing I did about the Healey)

 

[starauto]

The only way to know which starter is the correct one is to actually be involved in the operation of the refurbishing. The above companies depend on their supplier to send them the correct components. The difference with my company is I am actually involved in the refurbishing of the units and have been doing this type of work since 1976, this is were my knowledge and experience comes from.

Mike
Star Auto Electric Company