TR2/3/3A grill and apron opening

[sp53]

I have been working on the Apron basically removing the old putty, paint and rust. I hammered and dolly pushed and poked out the dents until everything is within about a 1/8 of being flat/smooth. I bolted the apron to the inner fenders and outer fenders to make sure stuff fits, plus refit the grill a couple of times. The grill goes in but fits tight and looks better than many, but not perfect. My fear is the tightness, and when painted, pushing the grill in will damage the paint and the damage will show. I could put inward bow on the grill and that should help. Part of me wants to open the grill hole up more by some hydraulic means, but that outward protruding lip around the grill looks challenging and weakly supported on the ends. That is why I bolted the apron in on the fenders, inner and outer, so that the grill might open and leave the rest of the shape be intact providing maybe and 1/16 of an inch for wiggle room. I guess if I did something like that I would need some kind of strong arc to push the opening evenly up or maybe it would be better that the bottom straight part went down. Moreover, the grill mounting holes on the bottom want the grill to push in past that little finish edge of the grill.

I went to the British show in Belleview, Wa, and there were all these tr3 large mouths side by side. I noticed that some of them had much bigger lips than others, so I am actually not sure what an original nose looks like. I do have the original grill with this car and the damage was not too bad. What it showed to me was a lot of lip that kinda bulge out.

Moreover, my plan was to paint the apron with epoxy primmer and use that finish putty on the low spots.

 

[CJD]

I was fortunate not to use an original grill in my TR3A, so I didn't have the issues you are dealing with. Just looking at your pics, I think I would start by trying to work on the grill rather than opening the mouth. Your mouth looks straight and true to me, so prying it would likely cause the outer corners to pucker...but I am just guessing, and it may have some room to spread.

But, the grill is soft aluminum, so I would think with careful work you could be able to give it a gentle curve that would help it fit better in the mouth. In other words, it sounds like you can get it to fit, and to do so it has to bend...so the key would be to study how it bends to fit, and then try to give it a "set" to that shape permanently. You may need a barrel or other large round object to work it over to get it shaped.

The "kissing" lip is a long standing topic. The only thing we know for sure is that the very early large mouths came with no "kissing" shape to the mouth. The later TR3A's definitely did come with the extra lip curve. There has been so much mixing and matching over the years, I don't think we'll ever know when the switch actually happened.

I'm envious too...your car looks like a car. All I have is one door!

 

[bobhustead]

Mine is tight, too. As I recall, I assembled it by hooking the top of the grill onto the upper lip and rotating the bottom in. The bottom swings in flat, without having to snap onto a roundish spot. I had no paint damage on several insertions and removals.
Bob

 

[Don Elliott]

When I was doing the restoration of my 1958 TR3A from 1987 to 1990, I used a piece of wood and a short hydraulic jack to open the mouth of the valance about 1/4" to 1/2" and the new grille fitted perfectly. The new grill was my gauge.

 

[Don Elliott]

This is how it looked when finally done in 1990. It still looks the same.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Complicating the fitment is the fact that not all grilles are the same. Used to be that repro grilles had smaller openings than the originals as seen in this photo:

Original is on the bottom - differences are most noticeable around the crank hole and at the ends where the smaller openings are apparent.

 

[BobbyO]

I'm amazed. I checked the forum to post about my problem with the grill and apron opening and find it one of the first thing being discussed. Apparently there is no good answer, either open the "mouth" or curve the grill. I think curving the grill would be easier. Attempting to widen the mouth seems a bit drastic without a perfectly shaped piece of wood and bottle jack. My problem is the mouth opening is 7 5/8 inches and I have a new grill that is 8 1/4 inches, almost 3/4 inch difference. I also have two old grills, one is 7 3/4 inches and the other is 8 inches. Obviously, these grills have been bent. Is there any way to easily bend the grill without making it look like you were hit in the front end?

 

[Don Elliott]

Whatever grille you have that you intend to install, it will not look right or "original" if it is curved (buckled) inwards. Open the vertical dimension as noted above and your TR will look like a winner - not a botched job.

Don Elliott - Original Owner, TS 27489 LO, 1958 TR3A

 

[BillyB62]

I think I have pictures of my grill with it curved inwards until I widened the mouth last year. I 'll look tomorrow and post if I can find one. Personally, I much happier with the look now that the grill isn't curved inwards.

 

[CJD]

I think the repro manufacturers just figured it was better to have a grill a tad to large, than to have one that was too small for some cars. There are ways to shrink the grill...but just like fitting the doors perfectly...it's not fun! But then, does anyone have pics "from back in the day" to tell if they were originally installed with curvature or not?

 

[martx-5]

... But then, does anyone have pics "from back in the day" to tell if they were originally installed with curvature or not?

I'd say Don Elliott has answered that question two posts above the one you made John. He's owned his car since new and is a stickler for originality.

 

[CJD]

I'd say Don Elliott has answered that question two posts above the one you made John. He's owned his car since new and is a stickler for originality.

But then, he DID have to bend his mouth open. That implies his grill was bent before the restoration, but straight after. That's also why it would be nice to see a picture of one of the grills taken when the car is new. I really don't know which is correct, or if there is a "correct"...really just wondering.

 

[BillyB62]

Here is a picture of my front end prior to me opening up the mouth a little and straightening out the grill.

 

[martx-5]

But then, he DID have to bend his mouth open. That implies his grill was bent before the restoration, but straight after. That's also why it would be nice to see a picture of one of the grills taken when the car is new. I really don't know which is correct, or if there is a "correct"...really just wondering.

Yes he did open the mouth 1/4"-1/2" for the replacement grill. Below is a picture of my car that has it's original grill in it's original, non messed with apron.

 

[Andrew Mace]

From the cover of Michael Cook's Triumph Cars in America (press photo):

 

[CJD]

From the cover of Michael Cook's Triumph Cars in America (press photo):

That's the pic! It looks like straight is the ticket. Bill, yours definitely looked "too" bent before you fixed it. Art, yours looks great!

 

[BobbyO]

Now working on the idea of opening the mouth. What type of wood did you use and did you pre-shape it before starting the jacking procedure? Did the opening procedure do any damage to the paint? Car was recently painted (4 months ago) and I would not like to have repairs done to it if I can avoid it. Smallest bottle jack I could find is 4.8 inches tall. Doesn't leave much room for wood in a 7.5 inch opening. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

 

[BillyB62]

Sorry, can't help you out there - I did mine with my hands when the apron was off and prior to repainting.

 

[triumphant2]

use a scissor jack, they are usually less than 4 inches tall. put a 1x4 on the bottom of opening, a 1x2 on the top of the opening and a 5/8 dia dowel inside where top of the opening rolls under. screw the jack up, it doesn't take much pressure. i raised mine up 1/2" higher than grill size and then let it settle down after removing jack. turned out just right