glued sills?

[gcan]

I am close to starting my sill replacement and have a question - can the sill replacement be done with glue instead of welding?

I found where several people have used the 3M glue to reattach the doglegs instead of welding. Even new cars are now coming out with body panels glued instead of welded. I've read where glued seams, just like welded, are stronger than the metal they are attached to. I know this may be different and there are probably welders rolling over in their grave but times change and I am wondering if this is one of those changes??

Obviously I ask the question because as a DIY'er I do not own a welder and have no welding experience and if they can be glued then this becomes a easier home project.

Thoughts?

 

[gcan]

If the seam, either welded or glued, was as strong as the metal it is applied to then it would not be a weak link.

This is different but I have been thinking about it and as long as the pieces are good, in my case all new, and the peices attached correctly and completely wouldn't the finished strength of the body be in the completed sill and be the same either glued or welded?

It makes sense that with either welded or glued the strength is in if it is attached correctly and makes a proper bond - correct?

I took it off another forum but a guy glued a seam then put it in a vise to tried to get the seam to break but the metal gave up before the glue seam.....things that make you go hmmmm

 

[Newkie]

I wasnt a welder either, but I went down to Harbour Freight and bought one of their inexpensive Gasless Mig welders. I got better as I went, and it turned out fine after I got the angle grinder after the spots afterwards.
Also, dont forget to either coat your inner sills with some type of protective. I used POR 15...
I dont know anything about about the glue, but I can attest to the ease of use of this welder for this job after a little practice.

Good luck!

Newkie

 

[gcan]

Newkie - what model welder did you buy?

 

[ccougill]

I'm a huge fan of gluing stuff but I think Id draw the line at sills

 

[JamesWilson]

Sounds like it'd be an "interesting" experiment... but there is a downside, if it doesn't work well....

I'd suspect that you can't just slap the glue on and shove the bits together. I wouldn't be surprized if a fairly technical and demanding regime might be required, like maybe: the glue would have to be applied to a very clean surface with the two pieces clamped together at some specified pressure, and dried under controlled conditions-temperature and humidity.

But I've never used the stuff and don't know squat about it, maybe some else who's used it can comment more about what's involved.

That said, welding isn't that hard to learn and MIG sets aren't that expensive. Try a course in a local college to see what's involved, I found that a very useful investment.

 

[ccougill]

all you really need is 2 clean surfaces and some way to clamp them together, I usually use screws or poprivets,while they dry. Ive never tried it on a really cold day, but humidity has little effect

 

[Newkie]

I will get back to you tommorrow with model number and type. It was easy, and I it only needed 110 to pwr it.
Those sills take alot of structural strength, so make sure you chose the stronger more durable method when you make your final decision.

Newkie

 

[Newkie]

Mig Welder
Heres the welder I bought and used to do my sills. Piece of cake once I got to use my friends auto darkening helmet.
I believe I bought it on sale for 99.00 last yr.
Good luck with your decision.

Newkie

 

[jlaird]

That looks like just the ticket for little cars and such.

 

[jjbunn]

Wow ... that takes 90 Amps of current! Do you need some sort of dedicated circuit to run it off?

 

[Scott_Hower]

Wow ... that takes 90 Amps of current! Do you need some sort of dedicated circuit to run it off?

No, the welder input is 110 volts/15 amps, which is a common residential branch circuit. There's a transformer inside the welder that steps the current to 90amps.

BTW, "duty cycle" refers to the ratio of usage/rest. Bigger is better, although a hobbyist probably would not care.

I like the idea of having a MIG around the house, but found it better to rent a really high quality MIG welder for a couple of weekends. Just my opinion.

 

[jjbunn]

Wow ... that takes 90 Amps of current! Do you need some sort of dedicated circuit to run it off?

No, the welder input is 110 volts/15 amps, which is a common residential branch circuit. There's a transformer inside the welder that steps the current to 90amps.

BTW, "duty cycle" refers to the ratio of usage/rest. Bigger is better, although a hobbyist probably would not care.

I like the idea of having a MIG around the house, but found it better to rent a really high quality MIG welder for a couple of weekends. Just my opinion.

So the transformer must reduce the voltage to about 20V, to match the 110V/15A of the primary draw. Makes sense ... so about 1.5kWatts.

 

[DrEntropy]

Yup... BRUTAL amperage at th' "business end".

The epoxy is great, I've done the same torture testing before using it... but I think I'd still be in favor of welding the inner structure instead of glue. Dogleg and "cosmetic" outer panels I've no problem bonding with epoxy. The structural bits are a different story. Mebbe I'm just old-fashioned or paranoid but I'll still knit those together with a welder. I did "glue" new floorboards into the '64 tho. Stainless pop-rivets (pre-drilled) every 6 or 8 inches as the "clamps".

 

[tony barnhill]

I'm curious what you'd glue them to.

 

[DrEntropy]

That's the "other problem" Tony. Not enough "purchase" for a good strong bond. Floorboards have a 1" "lip" to use as an attachment. The dog-leg has a 1/2" "lip" for same.

 

[tony barnhill]

Or lessthan 1/2-inch in some places, Doc - heck, I almost think it would have to be overlapped & them smoothed with lots of body filler (UGGH!)...this has, luckily, turned into a pretty easy repair...cut away the dogleg area...cut away the rusty rocker...make a patch panel out of a piece of a rocker & weld it in...then, weld the dogleg on & paint.

I know it seems daunting to a first-timer but it really is one of those things that's almost in the 'maintenance' category.

 

[DrEntropy]

With these cars at 30+ years old on average, I agree. Can't "butt-weld" with the epoxy.

But floorpans and outer panels are lap jointed, so the "glue" works well.