TR2/3/3A tr3 inner sills

[sp53]

My first choice for new project tr3 fell through, but I did find something that sounds do able. The guy has a nice rear clip with boxes of stuff and I have a kinda ok front clip off a car I cut up years ago. Anyways this would require me putting the inner sills which are something I have never done. I looked around the net and saw that Don Elliot had done it a few years ago and it looks like John might be doing it. If anyone has some pictures and right ups I appreciate the information. The project sounds daunting, but learning by blunders is the way I roll.

 

[CJD]

That is, indeed, one of the options I was looking at. It is the chief reason I repaired the frame first, as my plan is to assemble the body chunks on the frame itself. I figured it would be hard to go wrong if it was built up that way. I am a long way from actually starting the body work, though.

On the TR3 I rebuilt, I was concerned a lot about frame flex, so I didn't begin work on the tub till I had installed the entire drive train and had a rolling chasis. I then assembled the body on the finished chasis. My concern was that the frame would flex with the drive train, which would affect the body panels fit. Over the years, I have developed a new respect for the strength of the TR frame. I also learned that the rolling chasis is not heavy enough to even partially flex the springs, and I don't think the flex is more than about 1/8" with the drive train vs. no drive train. I no longer consider the frame flex to be significant.

So, if I do it this time, it will be on the frame without any driveline to get in the way. If I don't go with a complete donor tub...I will start with the inner sills, fully bolted to the frame with the proper cushions and spacers, and work outward from them. At the moment, these are just ideas...with a lot of flexibility!?!

 

[sp53]

I think I hear you John. You are bolting the stills to theframe and then setting the front and rear clip on sill to get the door opening rightplus keeps the rear and front clip in line for welding. Plus you are worriedabout the weight of the drive train affecting the line.. Moreover, would you doone side at a time?

 

[sp53]

I think I hear you John. You are bolting the stills to the frame and then setting the front and rear clip on sill to get the door opening right plus keeps the rear and front clip in line both vertically and horizontally for welding. Plus you are not worried about the weight of the drive train affecting the line.. Moreover, would you doone side at a time?

 

[CJD]

Yep...the second one.

Now remember this is just a plan, and it may not work out as planned, but it would go something like this:

1) Install a new set of pads and spacers on the frame, tacked with glue at the appropriate locations.

2) Install the two inner sills.

3) first loosely bolt the rear tub at the back of the frame and then tack the rear tub to the sills, being extremely carefull to locate it for and aft.

4) Install the new floors, while there is ample room to work...and only tacking at this point.

5) Install the front tub, using bolts and the doors to locate the position for and aft in relation to the B-pillars, and then tacking to the floors and sills.

6) Check all measurements for days, or weeks, till I am completely satisfied with the locations...then final weld the major parts that were already tacked.

7) Finally, install the new outer sills.

I am glad you brought this up, as it is something I have been tossing around in my mind for 11 months, but it's nice to discuss it out loud, as there are likely a lot of other members with better ideas...

And, just so you know, my likely course will be to use a donor tub, and not have to go through all this. It will be a major undertaking, but would give you something at the end that you can really be proud of!


ANother edit! As I rethink it, the sills and floors share the same body bolts, so I think I'd bolt the floors with the sills in step #1. See, it's a very flexible plan...

 

[TuffTR250]

The Roger Williams book "How to Restore Triumph TR2, TR3, and 3A" has a fairly lengthy discussion of inner sill replacement and merging the front section with a rear section, and how to go about bracing it all during the process.
Regards,
Bob

 

[charleyf]

John's description pretty well describes the process that I took in replacing the sills and floors in what my wife calls my "puzzle car". She calls it this because I bought it in pieces and in boxes. It needed new sills, floors and rockers. As well it needed the bottom portion of both "B" posts to be "restored". The bottom several inches of both sides was missing. In addition I was able to determine that it had been rolled and some of the front body was tweeked. I therefore had to try to determine where it was bent and how and where to straighten it.
Bottom line is that I have used the frame to determine the location of the front and back halves of the body and the doors to bring the two pieces together for the final fitting. And I did one side first. I did actually start with the two halves joined with what was left of the sills and floors. So I started with a bracing system inside the car to try to maintain that. But I subsequently had to loosen that system to get the halves to fit to the door, which is the ultimate fitting to use.

I spent a lot of time trying to make sure that everything was linied up as best as possible prior to any final welding. I am still in the process of working on the body shell. The exterior panel of the "B" post was rotted away and I am working on trying to replace that. The lower portion of the inner wheel arch was also missing ( rotted away) and I have restored that before going after the outer piece. One thing that I did discover is that the inner wheel arch of a TR4 ( because that was what I had handy) can be used to acquire a piece to replace the same on the TR3. It is not a perfect fit but it gave me the flared edge and the general curve of the inner wheel arch.

And the fun continues.

Charley

 

[Bainesy]

I'm doing the same... Charley, do you have any photos of your b-pillar repairs? Or can you describe what you did? I'm in the process of figuring out what to do with the bottom few inches of the b-pillars. I also have to figure out how long they need to be, as the car came to me pre-disassembled. Will probably have to put on the front and the doors so I can get the height of the rear half correct, then take it all apart to re-fabricate the bottom of the b-pillars based on these measurements? Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[Don Elliott]

If you e-mail me I can send you all lots of the photos when I did mine in 1987 to 1990. I made sure that the frame was supported under the axle lines and the engine/gearbox was bolted onto the bare frame. This is to simulate the car sitting on its tires. If you don't do this and weld it all together, then install the engine etc. and put the car down on its wheels and tires, all your gaps will change and the frame will flex so the gaps will not be parallel.

my e-mail address is 58tr3a at videotron dot ca. Just drop the spaces and use @ for at and . for dot

Glad to help

Don Elliot

 

[bobhustead]

I bought inner sills from TRF and found them useful only for duplicating the bolt pattern on the mounting plates. I built them from scratch with 1x3 rectangular tube, spacing the front and rear body thirds with struts built before disassembly (these are critical in all cases) and measuring from there. If you find your after market units unusable, pm me and I will try to help. Bob

 

[jcarr11]

Bob-

I just ordered inner sills from TRF (have not received yet) thinking they had the best available. What exactly were the issues you had with them?

It would save me some hassle to cancel the order rather than return them.

thanks-

Jeff

 

[sp53]

Wow thanks you guys; this is why the forum is so excellent. The help is solid and demonstrates years of wisdom that only experience can dictate. I am leaning strongly now on getting this car or ½ car. The cars I have looked at for sale need at least floors anyway. I did find one that is solid except a small hole in the driver side, but he wants 5K and the car is in pieces. So if I did go with the sills and floors I would have a solid tub for about 8 hundred in parts
Thanks John for your suggestion about the knowledge and satisfaction I would gain from doing such a project. Your right. I will look into getting the book Tuff250. I always wanted that one. Don your suggestions and help is coming from a “true one owner guy” and much appreciated. Thanks for the email I will be in touch. Bob I was thinking the same thing. Why buy aftermarket stuff that might not look correct or even fit that well. The sill looks like a steel channel that perhaps I could fabricate, but if they look OEM then I might get them for the originality of it all.

 

[charleyf]

I used the uprated TRF sills and found them to be a very good product. A few years ago I used a regular set for another car a and found them to be "off" in their fit. In the case of the newer TRF sills, I found them to be very good.
Charley

 

[charleyf]

I'm doing the same... Charley, do you have any photos of your b-pillar repairs? Or can you describe what you did? I'm in the process of figuring out what to do with the bottom few inches of the b-pillars. I also have to figure out how long they need to be, as the car came to me pre-disassembled. Will probably have to put on the front and the doors so I can get the height of the rear half correct, then take it all apart to re-fabricate the bottom of the b-pillars based on these measurements? Any thoughts appreciated.

The areas are still exposed so I will try to take some pictures. But what I did was to use some heavier guage sheet metal and formed it to mimic what had been there ( or at least what I could detemine to have been there). Like Don, if you email me I will send you the pictures. I am at scfitch at snowcrest dot net.
Charley

 

[Don Elliott]

I bought my repro inner sills from Cox and Buckles when they were still on manor Road on Richmond-on-Thames, just west of London. When I came to put them on, I found that some of the square support plates with the 4 holes were welded to the inner sill either too high or too low. I had to grind (I seem to remember) 2 of these off and MIG weld them back onto the sills at the correct height otherwise the floor pans wouldn't have the correct seating depth.

I also poured primer into the open rear end for rust prevention.

The captive nuts on the front angled plate which are used to secure the inner mud plates had hex head nuts instead of square nuts and they would turn until I found the problem I opened the front end and inserted he square nuts into the captive boxes.

Later on when the car was almost finished, I sprayed Wax-Oyl into the inner sills via this small holes for mre rust protectin They have been fine ever since with no sign of rust in 24 years and 113,000 miles.

 

[bobhustead]

They would not fit the notch shape of the a and b posts enough to even get them into position. To Charley's point, when I called TRF about mine, they told me that changes were being made on future manufactures. Bob

 

[PatGalvin]

My TRF sills fit fine. Here are a few shots of B Pillar reconstruct. Was fun. Hone those welding skills!

Pat

 

[jcarr11]

Thanks everyone. Sills should arrive tomorrow.

Looking forward to the process of joining things together rather than tearing apart, a major milestone in any restoration!

Jeff

 

[MDCanaday]

When doing this job bear in mind that the doors MUST fit perfectly BEFORE major welding is
set into motion.I suggest small metal screws(or kliko's). You must have perfect gaps at the A&B pillars
and along the outer rocker.The wing will fit up latter.There is little or no adjustment to the door
it has to fit 100%.......or it never will!!
I like the body to be on frame as described earlier(as long as it is straight) Once the welding is complete,
the body can come off frame with little fear of distortion.
MD(mad dog)

 

[Don Elliott]

Above, I promised to e-mail the photos of my inner and outer sill installation to anyone who was interested. I have now completed this with a technical description for each photo. I have already emailed Gordon Baines (Bainsey) the copy he requested.

If anyone else wants this, e-mail me at 58tr3a@videotron.ca

Since it's all done, you might as well get what I have put together.

BTW Pat, I love your work on the "B" post. Mine were so bad, I put in new ones plus a support with nut for the lap type seat belt attachment which I show and describe.