BE Engine What's Painted? What Color?

[Whitephrog]

The Austin Healey Concours Registry in their Originality Guide for Restoration and Registry Inspections say the following: "Engine series 9C through 12CC were painted Morris Green"...."Engines were painted as a completed assembly: intake and exhaust manifolds, manifold washers and nuts, starter,generator, water pump (less pulley), front and rear mounting plates, valve cover, tappet covers, thermostat housing, water drain petcock, distributor body, vacuum advance pipe, crankshaft pulley, retaining bolt and lock tab, cylinder head assembly including studs, washers and bolts, oil dip stick, oil sump lower vent pipe (if equiped) and the carburetor heatshield."...."Sometime during the 9C engine series production, the color of the fan blades and pulley changed from red to yellow....(red fans have been observed as late as AN5/14000)."..."On all cars the rocker cover was painted engine green along with the cork gasket"..."On all cars, both the intake and exhaust manifolds were on the engines when they were painted, and so they did have overspray on them, and may in fact have been completely covered with paint along with the rest of the engine."..."The base of the distributor and the clamping assembly were painted engine green. The vacuum advance unit was painted green on some models and a was zinc plated on later models....All vacuum control pipes were painted engine green."..."The [oil filter] canister, aluminum head, fixing bolts, oil filter to engine unit pipe, and banjo union and bolt were all painted Morris engine green."

So, question is does this learned group agree with the above? If not, why not?

 

[jlaird]

Yep good stuff, will be back later for an exception or two, must get on my way.

 

[jlaird]

Have not seen a dist body painted nor a water outlet or vacume advance or theromastat housing. My first sprite was a 1960 model and it was in 1962 that I got it, suspect that it was orginial.

 

[Ed Kaler]

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Have not seen a dist body painted

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Correct, Jack.

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nor a water outlet

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Agreed.

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or vacume advance

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Agreed. Base plate, etc., YES.

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or theromastat housing.

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Would be.

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My first sprite was a 1960 model and it was in 1962 that I got it, suspect that it was orginial.

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Bought mine in Monteray, CA in Feb of '62 right off show room floor. Last one!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angel.gif

Now please do NOT ask me if I rue the day I sold it nor if I wish I still had it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonono.gif

I think you know the answer!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angel.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
Ed

 

[jlaird]

Hay Ed, guess what the concours guys know or don't know. But then I guess there were all kinds depending on the day of the week and of the day of the month.

I had two before Miss Agatha Ed, and I should have kept both.

 

[fordtrucks4ever]

That would make for one ugly engine if everything is covered with Mr Morris. I can see on very early uses of that motor before adapted to so many other applications. Not that I care to be politically correct on the BE. My BJ8 is an original Golden Beige Metalic car that will go back close to original. Something about that color seems to push the price on up there.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Well I guess it all depends on what you want, if you want it to look exactly the way it came from the factory or not. Personally I don't build anything for show or other's approval and copying every factory detail has never been a goal of mine, I always fiquired I could improve upon the factory and didn't really care if it looked stock or not, just wanted it to look good or better. For instance I absolutely hate to see a engine painted after assembly all the bolts washers and etc. covered up, the factory did it that way to say a buck, but that doesn't mean I have to do it that way. I use alot of new yellow zinced grade 8 fastners in my engines, and I don't want them spray bombed over, it looks crappy to me, so I paint every exterior engine piece separately so when I'm done you can see every shiny new fastner and every little detail I took so much time on.

I know that doesn't answer your question but maybe plants another train of thought in your head.

As for shows, I noticed that the absolute correct car these days in these popularity shows don't always fair the best and often that angers thier owners, but the cars with tasteful upgrades mostly take home the hardware and you know maybe that's how it should be, that creativity should outweight mockery.

I'll close with this, if making your car an exact example of a new showroom car makes you happy and is not about taking a show throphy home, do it that way, we do these cars to make us happy and not anyone else. Follow your heart and you'll be satisfied with your results. It's about you, no one else.

 

[jlaird]

Cheers Hap, great thoughts.

I think most of us concur, however we do like to know what is really correct so we can let our hard won knowledge run from time to time. In fact it is nice to make em orginal when it does not interfear with comon sence or modern applications like spin on oil filters, hehe. I think none of us have any pretenses to a show winner ie just like factory, and do understand that Mr. Donald would have approved of most of the logical upgrades as he would have done the same. Think that also includes the 1275 and 5 speed box, alternator, and disc brakes even.

 

[Whitephrog]

Thanks for all the great responses. Problem is I sorta want my cake and eat it too. I'm restoring two BEs. One, the former whitephrog, had and will have again all the usual upgrades much as you described Jack plus some. The other deserves to be as "back to original" as possible/practical. There in lies my dilema. With this car I probably do want to do a concours or near concours restoration but I really don't like all the stuff the standards committee says is "correct". Hap, I agree with most all you said and I intend to bring the engine to you to be refurbished. I want to see what at NASCAR engine builder (Howard's Machine Shop in Huntsville, Alabama) did to an original 948cc engine during an early 1970s rebuild. Lot's to think about.

 

[jlaird]

I don't know but I expect that the standards committee does not for example insist that the cork gasket on the rockerarm cover be painted, after all it is a disposable item. I would suggest but don't know, that they would understand that paint jobs would be better, etc etc. If not so what. I mean, really, one side of the generator black and one green, how stupid is that. Mr. Donald would not approve, they were after cheeper not correct. I bet his was painted all the way around.

 

[spritenut]

I agree with Hap, I paint my engine parts first, then I assemble the engine with nice clean exposed gasket edges and new shiny bolts.
Dead correct would be to dip the pan and rocker cover so it has runs and sags in the paint. And although I am NOT a concours kind of guy, I do mention this to the concours owners who cringe when you say it was supposed to have runs in the paint if it's "correct".

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Well, it sounds like you will have the best of both worlds, as far as when it comes to what I do for a customer, I do what they want me to do, so if the goal is to mock factory, tha what we do. As for nice 948 upgrades, without going crazy, 1098 rods are a nice upgrade, no pinch bolts, and a real bushing, alot people like to put cam bearing in the block, also a nice realiabilty touch. Upgrade to the later wider lobe cams and a star drive oil pump,just to name a few, go with the double row chain set up and all beyond the judge's eye.

I'm kind of ignorant on the shows, but most I've went to are judged among the entry in the class, and most vote for themselves /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif, a few that show with lesser cars and know it useally determine the outcome. Are there shows around still that actually have a knowledgable panel of judges that correctly judge cars, even MG2006 was a popularity judged show. I know there was alot of whining on some of the forums about winners who had mix and match items, grilles from different years, things like that, ect..

I traded a race car for my already nicely restored 67 MGB GT, one of things that anoyed me was there was a couple of big paint runs on the left inner fender in the engine bay, comes to find out they were done when the car was new at the factory, and the PO has the painter not sand them down because they were factory and just paint over them, that one still bugs the crap out of me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[jlaird]

See, told ya about that factory mess. Why is that paint rough oh I droped my sandwitch. What's that bubble under the dash cover, the bosses chew?

 

[JPSmit]

If you think the brits were bad - has anyone seen any of the TV shows where they show the lengths concours restorers will go to get overspray/ orange peel etc on Corvettes? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[jlaird]

Not on my car, that's sick.

 

[fordtrucks4ever]

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See, told ya about that factory mess.

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You can only do sooooo much with a paintbrush in an assembly line.

 

[Whitephrog]

Okay! Okay! I get the point. Neater, sharper and cleaner looking than factory but to ones on taste. So I guess that one leaves the underside of their rear deck (area above the spare tire)in dark primer when they repaint?

 

[jlaird]

Leave nothing in primer, moisture goes right through.

 

[DrEntropy]

With clients, I'd ask 'em how they wanted it done. ~Usually~ they'd point to one of our "jobs in progress" with attention to detail, not the "dipped, factory" look but parts/pieces painted prior to assembly and say: "Just like THAT!"

A primer you MAY leave "open" is epoxy primer... But even then, IMHO, it would get a color coat in the "cave".

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Alot of time when we do component work for customers, like prep a block for instance, I would use the cast iron heat paint, so it wouldn't rust and the customer could later add the motor paint they wanted, alot of machine shops do this as well. Funny, people think a block comes out of the spray cabinet or vat looking new, when nothing could be further from the case. When I would tell the customer that it was cast iron paint, many would tell me they loved it and ask if they could leave it that way and I would tell them sure you can.