Axle failure

[gfholl]

Had a snapping clunk when leaving a stop light yesterday. Drive shaft spins when in gear but does not drive axles. Today was able to remove right axle which looked and felt OK. Left axle will spin without turning differential. I pull the axle out about a 1/4 inch and it seems to engage with differential but becomes very snug and I'm only able to get it pull out another 1/2 inch using a little pry bar force. I assume I have spun some splines on the axle and when pulling out they engage again.
I'm not sure how get the axle out without using too much force and damaging something else. Any ideas?
Gary

 

[HealeyRick]

I'm betting the left axle is broken and you have a stub left in the differential. The long end may have some twisted splines that are causing it to hang up. I'd try levering it with some more force, I don't think you're going to damage anything and I don't know of any other way to get that axle out of there. Once you get the axle shaft out, you'll have to remove the pumpkin to remove the stub. If you're lucky you can use a long rod to bang the stub out without having to disassemble the ring and pinion.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Broom Handle comes to mind. Drain the pumpkin and remove the nuts. Take a look inside to see what you are dealing with. Gonna need to get in there anyway to clean out debris. axles a plentybkn eBay. You want and EN17. Those are the later and stronger axles. That number is cast right into the end of the axle. You can see the number with the axle installed. And replace in pairs if you can.

 

[HealeyRick]

Broom Handle comes to mind.

If you're talking about inserting a broom handle from the right side and pushing the left axle out, that won't work as the spider gears get in the way. That's why I'm saying the only way I know how to get it out is by levering.

 

[gfholl]

Will take another swing at it tomorrow :eagerness: . Found an old post where a tool was made out of a piece of pipe with a section cut out to go around the spider pin so you could push the axle out. We will see if that works.
Thanks!
Gary

 

[Joe Schlosser]

I agree with Rick, lever the axle out. You have already broken it and there is nothing else to hurt. I have a big 24' nail puller that works great when I need levering and I can add a length of tube to the end for extra length
After cleaning the diff, take a look at the endplay of the drive gears in the spyder. There are thrust washers that can wear and put a side load on the splines causing the axle to break. Easy to replace.

 

[Boink]

Gary, it might be the perfect time to change out that diff to a 3.9. Saw one on Craigslist (rebuilt?) for $250.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

I have a square tubing piece of steel, with a 1/4" X 3/8" strip welded onto the end. I have used that to fit around spider shaft to knock out axles that were broken. Same principle as a cut pipe.

 

[TEM666666]

This happened to me last year! Right hand side half shaft. I was stopped at a stop sign and she rev's but no go. Fairly stock 948 and I drive very very gentle!



Maybe not what you want to hear (I did it the hard way!) I ended up pulling the whole assembly out (diff and all). Popped the broken tip out with a screw driver and hammer. Cleaned it out making sure there's no metal debris in the diff case. I used sealer/gasket-maker to close the diff case since I didn't want to order and wait for an actual gasket and this stuff works good anyways.

The paper gasket on the wheel hub end, I made one out of file folder paper material, tracing the original (right side only, the original one on left side was fine). Someone please enlighten me on this one but I feel there is some issues with the thickness of this paper gasket. Wrong thickness and it feels like you get in/out hub slop? Only other issue was trying to get the spacer on the suspension arm linkages in. I put some anti-sieze on some of the moving parts (pins, spacers, etc), which in the end got rid of a squeak I had before.

Concern now is what caused it to break in the first place, and when will it break again!

 

[Deleted member 8987]

It beaks because it breaks.
When I break axles, you can see a flaw point where it started. I always thought about NDT on axles, but they could all be questionable.
Age. Shock load (lots of pot holes and such) can exacerbate the issue.

Poor quality metal.

I just keep a spare in the boot and an old coat hanger to make a sling to get it out. Changed more at the side of the road in 50+ years than I want to remember.

Old transmission gears. U-joints. I even snapped a differential pinion flange in half once.

NONE of my axle related issues were ever done while racing off line or around corners. Just like you, coming off the line normally when the light turns green or driving down the road minding my own business.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

And just to be clear....this kind of stuff didn't happen the first 30 years or so of the life of these vehicles, or if it did, it was rare.
It's flaws, poor casting/forging, age and impact/vibration.

 

[gfholl]

Finally pried and beat the (m#%&f@*!) axle out. Pulled the diff and it looks OK, the stub of the axle came right out. Now to gather all the parts to put it back together. I really should replace the bearing and seal on the left side (previously did right side), but not too excited about fighting the axle nut off and on. Yes Mark now would be a good time to put in a 3.9 diff. Could you send me a link to the listing on craigslist, not seeing it right off?
It broke when I did an inadvertent somewhat abrupt launch from a stop light, but I'm sure these axles are weak being the originals from 1959.

 

[Boink]

Down in Carlsbad (with other engines, bits): https://eugene.craigslist.org/pts/d/mg-midget-sprite-morris/6233463700.html (was listed under "Sprite" in the Eugene postings oddly enough).

 

[HealeyRick]

And just to be clear....this kind of stuff didn't happen the first 30 years or so of the life of these vehicles, or if it did, it was rare.
It's flaws, poor casting/forging, age and impact/vibration.

Had it happen with my first bugeye in 1967, it was only 8 years old and it broke after gently leaving a red light. Must have been a common enough failure as when I went to the junkyard for a replacement, the yard guy knew enough to go right to a Nash Metropolitan to pull one as they have the same axle.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

But: We had those on occasion, maybe more than I ran into...but I did all the Brit work in several shops, and never had one on a Spridget...ever.

8 years is early, but yes. It did happen.
Most I've seen have been over 30.

Model "T" Fords wouldn't break (Ford Vanadium Steel) but would twist up like a screw.

And front axles.

And connecting rods.

Different steel, not brittle.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Gary,

Not that hard. Have Bugsy IV all apart again replacing Wheel studs so I've become an expert at this.

1) Diff Gasket - Made mine out of roll of gasket material. the paper gasket is worthless anyway. I just placed about a 12 x 12 piece of gasket material against two of the studs on the diff and with a leather punch tool set, < $10.00 at Hobby Lobby or Michaels, punched to holes to slip gasket over two studs, used a small brass hammer to lightly tap the remaining studs to mark their locations. Punched out remaining holes slip gasket flush and then used an Exacto or a Utility knife to trim off inside as well as outside outside. A Perfect gasket in < 10 Minutes.

2) Hub gaskets, trace on a brown paper shopping bag the axle hub marking all holes. Stock gaskets from usual sources are too thick. Hole Punch and sharp scissors again cut out these simple shapes. One shopping bag makes 12 gaskets. Trace on a piece of file folder first so you have a template. A spray Paint can plastic top makes a good shape for the inside cut out. Trace out multiple while you are at it as you may screw up here.


3) Hylomar Blue - Goole and order on line. One tube take care of you. Doesn't dry out. stays flexible. Gasket is used to distribute uniformly. So coat both sides of the mating materials. I use tip of rubber glove to smear on the hub, install gasket and then add to the axle. Wear gloves as it's sticky and cleanup with acetone.


4) MOSS - Order 2 Rubber Seals, Hub Screws, there are shorts and longs needed and you won't find at the local hardware store , 2 Axle Seals

Don't forget to install the rubber seal, and also don't forget to install the paper seal. %$!%~$ why do I have an extra pepar gasket sitting on the boot of my BE. Previos time endedup with an extra rubber gasket that got left off. Just clean it up with Acetone, assuming you are using Hylomar and do it again.

5) 207FF Sealed Wheel Bearing (2) These are for Subarus but fit our BE's

6) an E17 axle off of E-Bay, 2 if you can find - Price < $100 a pair

7) MOSS - While apart renew rear shoes. They probably are soaked in Diff fluid anyway and look at the rear wheel cylinders for leaks

8) Tip when the first side goes in easy and you can't get the axle to close up with the hub, it will happen no matter how hard you pound away, remember on ide # 2 you need to pull the wheel hub towards the axle. Put on two nuts and run them home and axle to hub seal will be tight. Don't ask the hub screw to pull them together.

9) And if you are thinking of switching to alloy wheels know that you need to order longer wheel studs. I hadall of this apart 2-3 weeks ago and am now redoing it to install 2" rear Wheel Studs. ^%@%@$#!#~

10) do it this way and you'll be good for years to come. And ask me question, I've become a self taught expert as I've done ll the stupid stuff more than once already.

 

[gfholl]

Found two EN17 axles locally. They have different marking so obviously not a matched set.
Went ahead and purchase hub and differential gaskets from Moss. The Diff gasket was made of a thin gasket material and seem slightly undersized but was very delicately able too push it over the studs. The hub was also made of a thin gasket material which was thinner than an older version that I had previously used (with no problem). Used a very thin coat of Hylomar Blue (equivalent) sealer on all gaskets. Also purchased a 3.9 Diff from Mickey in Carlsbad CA. I had replaced the right side seals and bearing a couple of seasons ago. Wasn’t having any leaking issue so the newer brake shoes were still in good shape and dry on both sides. I had used a 207S (single shield) on the right side so I went with that again on the left. My theory on the bearing is putting the shielded toward the seal would limit the amount of gear oil getting to seal and reducing possible leakage. Plus this bearing is cheaper than the sealed bearing :eagerness: ! Had no real issue installing the diff or the axles, it was helpful knowing to pull the hub to the axle instead of trying to push the axle in. Now it just a matter of driving it and watching for any leaks or other issues, so far so good.
Thanks
Gary

 

[Jim_Gruber]

On one of the Healey Digests 2 or 3 Big Healey Owners complaining about leaking Axle Seals and not being able to get the hub to seal. Same cure. put nuts on the axle and drum and pull the hub our and toward the axle to make a good seal.

 

[Joe Schlosser]

I probably have mentioned this before but in addition to everything getting old things are wearing out.
Before re assembling everything you should check the thrust washers that controls the end play of the spider gears. This will wear over time and is often the cause of the axle snapping.
With out the proper end float of the spider gear that the axle slides into the spider gear may not function properly and may cause the axle to snap.
If everything is apart it is easy to check, the fix id a little more complicated with having to pull the spider carrier and replacing the thrust washer.
However it is better than snapping axles