TR6 Ammeter?

[crash21]

Hello all.
I realize I am kind of all over the place with my questions... Body work, dashboard, carbs.. Seemingly no rhyme or reason to my method.
I am in the process of making a renovation plan for the TR6. There is so much to do that I have to make a plan and take a real inventory to see what I do and don't have.
Things that I don't have I put on my list and if I happen to see it on eBay or wherever for a decent price I go ahead and pick it up and put it away for now. It also gives my wife a list of Christmas/ birthday presents.
So with all of that said...
I have a fuel, oil pressure and temp gauge that have "Smith" printed on them and the needle swings from the top. The appear to be the originals. I also have an ammeter that does not have the "Smith" name and the needle swings from the bottom. Is this supposed to be a Voltage gauge instead of the ammeter?
It is a 1972 TR6 and from my research they switched from a voltage gauge to an ammeter? What year?
Thanks everyone

 

[TR3driver]

TRF shows 72 was the last year for the ammeter, but it swings from the top.
https://trf.zeni.net/TR6greenbook/22.php

 

[crash21]

Thank you.

 

[Geo Hahn]

...I also have an ammeter that does not have the "Smith" name and the needle swings from the bottom. Is this supposed to be a Voltage gauge instead of the ammeter?
It is a 1972 TR6 and from my research they switched from a voltage gauge to an ammeter? What year?

Posting photos (front & back) may enable the gauge you have to be identified. If it is superfluous to your needs you may at least find out what it is from for an eBay listing.

 

[crash21]

Oops.. Double post.

 

[crash21]

TRF shows 72 was the last year for the ammeter, but it swings from the top.
https://trf.zeni.net/TR6greenbook/22.php

Oh.. So it would be a Smith ammeter?
It would appear that someone replaced the original with an aftermarket.
I don't have a commission number plate on my car. It may be in a box I have yet to go through.
I will send away for the info if I don't find it.
I don't know if the commission numbers listed are through the entire 72 model year or possibly a mid year change.

 

[TR3driver]

I believe the ammeter should be Lucas rather than Smiths. Here's a photo from Bill Piggott (of a TR5 dash, but the early TR6 ammeter is supposedly the same).

One way to determine if your car had an ammeter originally would be to look at the wiring behind it. If there is a heavy brown/white wire that comes out of the harness, the harness at least is for a car with an ammeter. Later cars don't have a brown/white at all.

PS, Early Stags had a voltmeter that would look reasonably well at home with the early TR6 gauges. Black face, needle hangs from top with a shroud, black surround. I'm not sure that helps since used Stag parts are a lot scarcer, but it might.

Personally, I have not found the voltmeter on the Stags to be useful. The gauge itself is not very accurate (although it can be tweaked better), and being fed off of the ignition switch means that the reading is off by whatever the voltage drop is through the wiring and switch. I spent a fair amount of time cleaning and tightening connections (on top of carefully recalibrating the voltmeter), but the voltmeter still reads different than battery voltage. It also responds very slowly, so it doesn't show (for example) the charge/discharge balance at idle as you switch lights on and off. After any change (including engine rpm), you have to wait a long time to see if it is charging or not; and guess at how much. A voltmeter will also never tell you things like whether you left the marker lights on (I make it a habit to check the ammeter every time I leave my TR3), or whether your brake lights are working (tapping the pedal produces an instant reaction from the ammeter), or the alternator is running the battery down.

 

[Tybalt]

I believe the ammeter should be Lucas rather than Smiths. Here's a photo from Bill Piggott (of a TR5 dash, but the early TR6 ammeter is supposedly the same).

One way to determine if your car had an ammeter originally would be to look at the wiring behind it. If there is a heavy brown/white wire that comes out of the harness, the harness at least is for a car with an ammeter. Later cars don't have a brown/white at all.

PS, Early Stags had a voltmeter that would look reasonably well at home with the early TR6 gauges. Black face, needle hangs from top with a shroud, black surround. I'm not sure that helps since used Stag parts are a lot scarcer, but it might.

Personally, I have not found the voltmeter on the Stags to be useful. The gauge itself is not very accurate (although it can be tweaked better), and being fed off of the ignition switch means that the reading is off by whatever the voltage drop is through the wiring and switch. I spent a fair amount of time cleaning and tightening connections (on top of carefully recalibrating the voltmeter), but the voltmeter still reads different than battery voltage. It also responds very slowly, so it doesn't show (for example) the charge/discharge balance at idle as you switch lights on and off. After any change (including engine rpm), you have to wait a long time to see if it is charging or not; and guess at how much. A voltmeter will also never tell you things like whether you left the marker lights on (I make it a habit to check the ammeter every time I leave my TR3), or whether your brake lights are working (tapping the pedal produces an instant reaction from the ammeter), or the alternator is running the battery down.

Give that man a cigar or drink or something that he might like...

That's about as good a description as you can get on what's what as far as the instruments go on these cars. The other not as good a description but quick and dirty way is whether or not the instrument surround is black (up to and including 72) or chrome (73 up). If it's black it should be an ammeter with needle swing from the top, if it's chrome it should be a voltmeter with needle swing from the bottom.

 

[Geo Hahn]

...If it's black it should be an ammeter with needle swing from the top, if it's chrome it should be a voltmeter with needle swing from the bottom.

Of course Smiths made gauges in both bezel colors and needles both ways, for instance a voltmeter with a black bezel and top-hinged needle:

Since the design was pretty consistent, gauges can be swapped around w/o it being obvious - e.g. the above is a TR6 mechanical oil pressure gauge that has replaced an electronic unit on a non-TR panel.

 

[crash21]

Thanks so much for all the info.. I know I came to the right place for TR info!
The ammeter I have has a Chrome bezel and the needle swings from the bottom.
It doesn't have a manufacturer name on it and looks much newer than the other gauges.
If the needle was in the same configuration as the others (swings from the top) I wouldn't worry about it but it is glaringly obvious and just won't look right.

 

[Tybalt]

Of course Smiths made gauges in both bezel colors and needles both ways, for instance a voltmeter with a black bezel and top-hinged needle:

(photo deleted)

Since the design was pretty consistent, gauges can be swapped around w/o it being obvious - e.g. the above is a TR6 mechanical oil pressure gauge that has replaced an electronic unit on a non-TR panel.

All true, but I was speaking as it directly applies to the standard TR5/TR250/TR6 application.

 

[TRopic6]

Crash,

Randall has some good info in post #7. The ammeter measures the electrical load that is carried through it. The connections should be stout brown wires to connect to a gauge like in the pix. Oh, there were some mid-year changes for the 72, but didn't affect the gauges. Is there a 'seat belt' light just under the dash dimmer knob?

Jeff

 

[crash21]

Yes there are some fairly heavy brown wires in the gauge area of the dash.
I can't really say if there is a seat belt light under the dimmer knob because to be honest I don't know where the dimmer knob is supposed to be.
I purchased the car as a rolling chassis and a bunch of boxes. The dash is virtually non existent. The veneer has separated and the dash is cracked in several places. I have a template for making a new one from the old one but that is all it's good for. There is no writing on the dash at all.
I have never driven a TR6 so I really don't know the placement of the gauges.

 

[TRopic6]

OK - another way is the early '72s has a flip-up air vent between the windshield wipers. Later ones just had a plastic grid over the opening. This is the fresh-air intake for the heater. Later ones also had 3-point retracting seat belts instead of a lap belt, but these can be removed/replaces/lost, etc. Something that does make a difference is the hazard flasher switch & wiring. I had a later '72 20 years ago - I'll try to recall some more.

Jeff
74.5 & 75 TR6

 

[crash21]

Maybe this will shed some light on what I am working with at the moment.

 

[TRopic6]

Neat - Because the dash knobs have words ('choke' instead of a symbol), it was probably made in Jan '72 or later. Apparently there were some Federal safety regs that took affect then. No holes in the floorpans & the fenders look nice. They are straightforward cars with a few quirks; there are experts here that will save you days of wondering what is wrong and how to fix. I'm finishing a 74.5 to just drive around.

Jeff

 

[crash21]

Thanks for all the info.
I assume that being a January or later car it is the "later" 72?
I have found some rust in the b pillar on the driver side but none in the passenger side at all.
I am still in the process of doing inventory just to see what I do and don't have.
I just picked it up over the Thanksgiving weekend.
https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcf/showthread.php?103732-72-TR6-Project-A-few-new-pics

 

[TRopic6]

Looks like the makings of a solid driver car. I have the amp gauge and some electrical stuff if it doesn't turn up in you boxes. I'll PM you.

Jeff

 

[crash21]

Thanks a lot for your help.
The ammeter was just one of those little things that most people would probably never think twice about and just replace with whatever. While I am certainly not going for a "concourse" rebuild I just don't think it would look right to put some modern gauge in. I will do improvements where they are needed but I don't want to change the look of the car at all.

 

[crash21]

GOOD NEWS!!

I began the inventory of a new box and lo and behold there is the original Lucas Ammeter. I don't know the condition of the internals but I have it.
I also found: (all new) Shift knob and boot, sun visors, door handles (exterior), window felt, door seals, boot and bonnet seals, Ash tray, and glove box. That is what I have inventoried so far from this one box and still have quite a few more things to determine what they are.
I found a receipt from The Roadster Factory with all these parts and quite a few more.