Outer structure repair order/checklist

[MisterB]

Hi Folks-
Getting ready to button up the outer structure on the right side of the '67 BJ8. Here's my plan of attack-
Outriggers were done by the PO, so--
Inner sill- stitch weld 1/2s together, locate to front wheelwell and attach along length to outriggers and rear.
Attach rear shut panel and door hinge panel to sill.
Outer sill.
Floor pan.
Seems intuitive, but I thought I would check.

Also, what is the consensus on applying a bit of upward push to the inner frame section while this work is going on? Bracing the door opening? I do have the door where it will close and latch now with the sills and floor unattached, just held with welding clamps. The right side was done long ago and has required some tweaking on my part to get things lined up better.
The engine and tranny are in situ and bolted loosely in position.
I am new to Healeys and am muddling through with much help from the archives. Thank goodness for it!
Thank you,
Mike Burgess
Albert, KS

 

[John Turney]

Bracing the door opening so the door gaps remain correct while doing outriggers and sills is a must. Some advocate having the engine and transmission in the car, but that means you have to weld facing upward, which is more difficult.

 

[MisterB]

Thank you for the response John. It's my understanding that angle iron from the windshield pillar bolt hole to the convertible top attaching points will do well for that?

 

[vette]

Mister B, I'm not sure I can decipher how much you have already welded in but I will try to describe the approach I took when I did my BJ7. If I am covering something you have already done, forgive me. My latch pillars (B Post) were rotted away So I knew I was going to have to replace them. I braced the door opening from the front hinge pillar ( 'A' pillar) to the back inner wheel well panel at approx the location of the convertible top mounting plate. I also braced the car laterally with an angle iron (1/2") across from side to side at about the back of the top of the seat back location. This was welded at a point just behind when the latch pillar. Obviously all the locations are critical so I decided to create what I will call "Datum" lines. Above the rear outriggers I welded another angle iron parallel to and about 6" directly above the outrigger. i used this as my reference point and dropped measurements to the out rigger at both ends and at two points in the middle. When I cut out the outrigger, I new exactly where to locate the new one. I felt at the time that my hardest part of the job was to locate the new latch panels. Since I had to cut the old ones completely away It was hard to get a reference exactly where and at what angle the new one needed to be. The veriables are where the final position of the rear fender would be and the final position of the door. Ultimately I referenced everything off of the hinge pillars ( 'A' pillars). Since my hinge pillars were very solid and appeared to have never been repaired of moved, I felt confident enough to reference from them. So the location of the doors, (also when I took the car apart, there were no shims in my door hinges) the fenders, the rockers, and pretty much the whole car is referenced off of the "A" pillars. This left one more puzzle. My rear fenders and doors had terrible alignment when I bought the car.
I did not know how far the latch pillar needed to be away from the doors. What has to be considered is that the rear fender wraps around the latch pillar, and the door must close easily with the included fitment of the latch plate itself and the alumimium finisher panel. And the longitudinal and lateral angles of the hinge pillar are critical. It took alot of trial and error and ultimately I think I got the latch pillar a little farther from the door than ideal but I played it safer than sorrow. My door gaps look fine and I am happy with them, but it was a challenge. Good Luck.

 

[Randy Forbes]

In typical fashion, these door aperture braces are overkill; they do however offer a range of adjustment, allowing the door gaps and angles to be precisely dialed in. They attach to the pinch-welds near the hinges and latch, and the can be fitted with the doors still in place (and before major disassembly) so the positions can be locked-down for the duration of structural surgery.

 

[MisterB]

Thanks fellows. The outriggers are already in courtesy of the PO. I believe they are good as the inner sill sits well and the floor panel has good overlap. Not too much. Randy, that is one fine piece of engineering there! As I am but an egg in the nest I was thinking of the angle iron approach. Working 60+ hours per week leaves me precious little time to commune with the machine as well. Excellent information from you both. Many thanks.
Regards,
Mike Burgess
Albert, KS

 

[vette]

Randy, I remember you talking about your braces before and I think they are terrific. In the case I was discribing, I had no trouble fixing the door aperture opening because I also put the braces I was talking about on the inside of the door opening so that I could remount the door at will. The challenge I was finding was that after I had cut the latch pillar off, it was difficult to be sure it most ideal location. This is because with the rockers removed, the rear fender removed and the door height, set back and longitudinal position still up in the air, it was a bit of guess about the latch pillar. Since my doors had no shims before, i decided to hang them again with no shims and go from there. but the aperture opening never changed. but the latch pillar once cut off will change.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Randy, I remember you talking about your braces before and I think they are terrific. In the case I was discribing, I had no trouble fixing the door aperture opening because I also put the braces I was talking about on the inside of the door opening so that I could remount the door at will. The challenge I was finding was that after I had cut the latch pillar off, it was difficult to be sure it most ideal location. This is because with the rockers removed, the rear fender removed and the door height, set back and longitudinal position still up in the air, it was a bit of guess about the latch pillar. Since my doors had no shims before, i decided to hang them again with no shims and go from there. but the aperture opening never changed. but the latch pillar once cut off will change.

Indeed, the clamps I made would be of no more help deciding where the door-shut panel goes than a can of OFF (insect repellent)! I was just presenting them as another way of holding the door opening steady while the other work was accomplished

If it were ME doing the job, and any remnant of the original shut face was salvageable, then I would only use as much of the new piece as was necessary to patch the rust. When I was doing my car__boy, did I ever have a LOT to learn back in 1986__I cut the whole shut-face off when I only had a couple inches rotted away at the bottom; BIG MISTAKE! If I had only cut the required bit needed off the bottom on my new panel, I could've made the repair without having to start the whole door/fender alignment process from scratch. Live and learn...

 

[vette]

fully understood, I was in the same boat but my shut face panels were rotted on the bottom and the outside edge all the way up to around near the top.

 

[MisterB]

Hi Folks-
Took the first couple of nights installing some new bits I got in. (Door handle, washer bottle, tail lights, etc..) and getting them fettled in proper. Last night I took the night off to finish up the refurbishing of am M35 stalhelm that I've has since I was a kid, now back to the metal work!
After looking, reading and thinking I've revised my plan a bit...
Jack in the center of the main frame slightly to offset any possible sag. Remove shimming from adjusting door to latch a couple of Sundays ago. Look over the door gaps and rough in adjustment to suit. Brace across the top of the door jamb to hold adjustment. Weld in long sill after the stitch welding to join halves. Weld in outer sill. Reattach bottoms of hinge and shut pillar to finalize door gaps. Done. All of this is done with the door in situ minus shims unless needed to finalize gap fitting. Sounds good on paper!
Thanks for the input so far fellows, sure makes this easier than it used to be when you went with guess and gosh!
Mike Burgess
Albert, KS