My first frightening experience.

[JBann]

Well this afternoon, I was unfortunate enough to find out why the early spitfire's swing-axle was heeded and criticized for being hairy.

I was out in my '64 Mk1 Spitfire and came across a turn that ended up being tighter than I anticipated and tightened up at the end. Great. On top of that, I was driving too fast (me, being my idiot-young-self). I enter the corner and realize, oh crap, I am coming in too fast so I stand on my brakes (forgetting that one is better of staying on the throttle in a swing-axle car) and lock up my tires which then kicks my back out to the left. I counter steer but not enough and what do you know, I am facing the other direction in a ditch on the right side. Thank god that ditch was there because behind it was a stone cliff wall. Amazingly no damage to the car. I just had to get it unstuck and went on my way, staying way under speed limit. Not only is my confidence shot, but I have officially and appropriately declared myself an idiot. I should have known better. I am so very grateful that everything (surprisingly) turned out okay, nothing on the car seems to have been affected. But jeez that will scare the heck out of you.

So, basically, in telling this story, I was wondering if anyone else had similar experiences and how I should learn from it (outside of slowing down and realizing that staying on the throttle is better in sharp corners)?

Thank you,
Jan

 

[DougF]

Sounds like you already learned something. Glad to hear all is well.
We've all gotten ourselves into bad situations at one time or another. What I can relate just comes with more windshield time. Know your car, know your abilities, and next time you want to be "an idiot", know the road.

 

[Moseso]

I Took a TR3 OVER a 40 foot embankment when I was 22. Cost me the car, 4 weeks in bed and another good 4 months, or so, to feel my "old self" again.

Yes. The main lesson is to have your high-speed fun in a controlled environment. Take it to the track. The public road really isn't the place for testing the limits.

Glad you and the car are OK. Try to be careful and keep it that way.

 

[Brosky]

Well.....I wish I could say that I knew better at your age, but I didn't and I did some stupid things too. Some of them did not turn out as well as yours did.

 

[RonMacPherson]

Classic Motorsports has ads for driving schools at your local track.. Might be something to investigate/consider.

I too, when I was young and sassy was too big for my britches, while behind the wheel.

But my Dad was involved in Security training and I got to spend several weekends monitoring the Bob Bondurant school of driving(accident and attempted hijack avoidance mainly)..

Opened my eyes up to a lot....

 

[Andrew Mace]

...I was wondering if anyone else had similar experiences and how I should learn from it (outside of slowing down and realizing that staying on the throttle is better in sharp corners)?

Jan, that's the best lesson right there. Beyond that, though, you can explore any number of improvements to the rear suspension. In order (more or less):

1. tire pressure
2. tires themselves (old, worn, too big or small, etc.)
3. suspension bushings and settings (bushings in good shape, bolts not tightened while the rear is dangling from jackstands, etc.)
4. better shocks (Konis if you can find the $$$)
5. a. camber compensator, available from Joe Curry ; or alternatively
5. b. a swing spring kit from Canley Classics, which consists of not only the different rear spring itself but the fatter front anti-roll bar necessary to keep the car balanced

[NOTE: 5.a. is cheaper. I'll leave it to others to argue which is better; I prefer camber compensators myself!]

 

[JBann]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

As everyone said, in short, and I well know this myself, is to slow down. I believe the corner had a sign recommending 25MPH, while I was most likely attempting to go though there between 35-40MPH, let alone considering that it is a) an old car b)has swing axle c) rears are old tires d) the rear spring should probably be replaced. (I replaced the shocks last weekend, at least, but still no excuse.) Either way, it was stupid and reckless on my part; but I learned.

I very well know to keep this behavior to the track and that is what I intend to do. Actually, an experience friend of mine (he raced formula fords and IMSA Porsche 914s) and I are building together a mk1 Austin Mini for vintage racing and hill climbs. So perhaps if any of you are racers in the Pa. Hillclimb Association or in the SVRA up in northeast area, we may meet in the coming years.

Thanks you all again.
Jan (now a little wiser with one LONG way to go)

P.S. thanks Andrew Mace for those suggestions, I'll have to look into them.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Reminds me of that quote attributed to Ken Richardson: "I have seen the color of adrenaline... it is brown".

Yeah, sometimes we have to scare ourselves a bit to get the idea.

 

[AngliaGT]

You might see if they have any aotocrosses going on
in your area.

- Doug

 

[SkinnedKnuckles]

Yeah I had one of those idiot moments in my 6. Two kids in a Miata thought it was great sport to chase me. I had them on power/weight, so took off after a stop sign. I knew the road - it was an uphill grade with a quick left at the top, followed by a long straightaway where I'd really lose them. Took the turn at about 50 mph and had WAY too much oversteer. I didn't leave the road, but took both lanes in recovery. Man I'm glad there was no oncoming traffic! Got home and softened up the rear AS bar and changed tire pressures to get the balance back. Several years later & I still take it easy on that corner.

 

[Andrew Mace]

...I believe the corner had a sign recommending 25MPH, while I was most likely attempting to go though there between 35-40MPH, let alone considering that it is a) an old car b)has swing axle c) rears are old tires d) the rear spring should probably be replaced. (I replaced the shocks last weekend, at least, but still no excuse.) Either way, it was stupid and reckless on my part; but I learned.

I still agree with you that the braking, etc., did rather put you "off line" as it were, but I've done countless "recommended 25 MPH" curves at 35-40 MPH or more in Heralds and Spitfires. It can be done. If anything on the car needs fixing, fix it! And autocrossing or any other way to better "learn" how your Spitfire behaves would be great. I know what that all did for me years ago. (Heck, the first car I ever autocrossed was a bone-stock Mk3 Spitfire!)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]P.S. thanks Andrew Mace for those suggestions, I'll have to look into them.[/QUOTE]You're very welcome!

 

[UltimateQuestion]

Luckily my story was in a controlled environment at an autocross in my GT6 Mk3. I was entering a decreasing radius left turn and I found out about "trailing throttle oversteer" which was something I had only read about. I was going in way too fast and I lifted thr throttle, once the car started around there was nothing to do but lock the brakes and wait for it to stop. It was a harmelss spin-out, only some cones were slightly injured!

 

[JBann]

...I believe the corner had a sign recommending 25MPH, while I was most likely attempting to go though there between 35-40MPH, let alone considering that it is a) an old car b)has swing axle c) rears are old tires d) the rear spring should probably be replaced. (I replaced the shocks last weekend, at least, but still no excuse.) Either way, it was stupid and reckless on my part; but I learned.

I still agree with you that the braking, etc., did rather put you "off line" as it were, but I've done countless "recommended 25 MPH" curves at 35-40 MPH or more in Heralds and Spitfires. It can be done. If anything on the car needs fixing, fix it! And autocrossing or any other way to better "learn" how your Spitfire behaves would be great. I know what that all did for me years ago. (Heck, the first car I ever autocrossed was a bone-stock Mk3 Spitfire!)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]P.S. thanks Andrew Mace for those suggestions, I'll have to look into them.

You're very welcome! [/QUOTE]

Truth be told, that is why this corner was so unexpected. I have gone though other corners at such a speed without issue but it most likely happened because I was maintaining my speed that I had on the road to begin with and was not expecting the turn to end up that sharp with a decreasing radius. I was most likely way off line to begin with when half way into the curve, I noticed it was REALLY sharp and hence my frightening spin. However, by no means do I mean this to be an excuse for not being properly alert and going faster than I should have been going.

Autocross practice is a good idea, that way I can safely find out how the car handles under such tight conditions. With only three months of experience driving a vintage car, it is still something new to me from which I am learning everyday.

With that said, I would like to know what tire pressure I should be running with modern tires (155/80). I ask this because I believe the car originally came with 5.20S x 13 and when I try the tire pressures listed in my owners handbook, my modern tires are half flat!

Jan

 

[Andrew Mace]

I'd start with something like 24 in the front and 28 rear and see how that works.

 

[tdskip]

+1 on recommending some time autocrossing. Great way to safely learn car control specific to the car you are trying to control.

 

[vagt6]

A "happy" story because you were not injured. Sorry about the incident, may you learn from this experience.

I rolled a GT6 into a corn field at about 60 MPH once, walked away only because it was a freshly plowed field and very soft with no hard spots. Car was totalled but I was okay. That was 1973, I've never crashed one since.

Cars are not inherently dangerous, it's the DRIVER that causes the problems. It's our responsibility to make sure the car's safe to drive. Once that's out of the way, yuou've gotta know the car's, limitations. Don't learn this lesson the hard way. Practice, learn the car's capabilities at slow speeds on a closed track, if possible.

But most of all and of profound importance: make darn sure your antique car is safe to drive. Make darn sure that all key systems are fully functional: braking; drivetrain, suspension (obviously very key), the whole shebang. These LBCs are normally debilitated by rust, which can render your suspension and key components very dangerous to drive.

Just make sure your antique LBC car is safe to drive before "testing" the limits.