Ignition timing woes - PLEASE HELP!

[Kevin Genoff]

Howdy all,

Been trying to set my ignition timing. After much trouble, I decided to go through the entire process. Set my point gap. I tried static timing. I have the #1 cylinder at TDC...I put the mark at the crank pulley at 10* BTDC. I put in the distributor, and rotate it so the rotor hits terminal #1.

When I do this, the vacuum advance diaphram is practically vertical. From pics, it appears it should be more near the generator. When I try to start the car, it will not start. If I rotate it clockwise, so the rotor is now near #3, it'll fire up. Problem is, the timing mark is WAY off - no way to dynamically set the timing now.

Any advice? Only thing I can think of is the engine has been rebuilt, and the timing chain is off or something. I did have the car running, but it seemed to lack power, and was sputtering and missing a bit. After adjusting the carbs, it's diesel after I turned the key off. That's what prompted me to think the timing was really off.

Any advice/tips would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[aeronca65t]

Sounds like your plug wires are on the cap wrong (in other words, you may need to move them all over one position).
Rotate distributor so that it looks like the picture in your service manual. With engine at TDC (be sure it's on compression TDC, not exhaust TDC) observe which cap contact is closest to the rotor contact. Plug the #1 plug wire in that spot. Moving counter-clockwise, plug in #3, #4 and #2.
This should give you the range of rotation you need for correct timing. Hope this makes sense.

[ 09-17-2003: Message edited by: aeronca65t ]</p>

 

[NW_SpriteGuy]

Sounds like the same thing I ran up against when trying to start my engine after a rebuild.
I ended up doing the very exact same thing aeronca65t suggests you try. Once I had made the plug wire changes, the thing turned right over and started up like a champ. Haven't had any problems since. Good advice!

 

[CDK]

Ken,
Good advise so far,if you still dont have the distributor looking like its in the right location you can move it.This takes a little bit of stepping back and thinking what do I want to do but is very easy.Make sure #1 is up on top dead center using the timing mark and checking your valve postion.Using the cap indicator mark #1 on the dist housing figure out direction of rotor rotation (which can somtimes seem incredibly confusing)and alowing for rotor twist drop it in where you want it.Hint line up the oil pump shaft by hand before dropping the housing in.It might take a few tries to get it just right(hopfully the oil pump drive and distributor drive engage the same as on most motors.)If not the next post should be Dave R. explaning why this is a hair brain idea.
CDK

 

[Kevin Genoff]

I was thinking of moving the plug wires over one...thanks for reassuring me. It seemed like a "cheap" or cheating fix to me at first. If you all say to do it, I feel better about it.

What I don't understand, is why it's even doing this if I have #1 lined up with the rotor at TDC. I mean, theoretically, I should be able to put them all 180* off if I wanted to, as long as #1 is at TDC when the rotor it pointing to the #1 terminal, right? Maybe I am thinking too much...I'll just switch them.

I know what you're sayin' CDK...I basically did all that too - except for the rotor twist part. It's not a gear-drive on it...just two slots. So, it's either dead on, or 180* off.

Thanks for the advice, I think I'll move them all counter-clockwise one terminal and see what happens.

 

[spritenut]

You mentioned the engine was rebuilt.
Is the dizzy drive in correctly?
Yeah, the picture in the manuals show the "offset" But I never could see any "offset" and I always drop them in 180 out. As you suggested, move the wires 180 and it will run fine.
You may also have a Triumph dizzy cap. They look the same but are off by 90*, so your distributor will point towards the back of the car when timed correctly. Or your drive could be off by a tooth.
If you dismantled the distributor, you may have the weights in 180 out or the drive gear.

 

[aeronca65t]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kevin Genoff:
[QB]It's not a gear-drive on it...just two slots. So, it's either dead on, or 180* off.

QB]<hr></blockquote>

Kevin: I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, but it sounds like you're saying the distributor will go in two ways.
Actually, it will not. The drive dog at the end of the distributor is offset slightly and can only go in one way.

 

[Kevin Genoff]

thanks everyone - I'll try moving them over, haven't had a chance.

The engine may have been rebuilt, I don't know the history. I never rebuilt it, I just removed the distributor and started static timing it, becuase i couldn't get it correct with the dynamic timing.

As for the drive, that's good news it only goes in one way - mine only does. I was thinking something was wrong in the gear or something.

Thanks, I'll try switching wires tonight.

 

[spritenut]

Originally posted by Kevin Genoff:
" It's not a gear-drive on it...just two slots. So, it's either dead on, or 180* off."

Yes but if your drive gear was put on the cam shaft wrong, it's off a tooth or 3 thus making those 2 slots off a few teeth too.
The sloted drive comes out with a 5/16 x 24 long bolt threaded into it.

The distributor will be 180 out if the drive was installed 180 out on the cam. Or if it's off just a tooth, the distributor will be pointing way out of normal.

The easiest way to check this is by moving the wires over one, instead of 1-3-4-2 , start with
3-4-2-1, then 4-2-1-3, etc. since you can not rotate the dist 180. If it runs with the firing order at 4 where 1 should be, the drive gear is in 180 out. That is the sloted thing in the block.
To fix it, remove the distributor clamp, then the collar under it. Use the long bolt threaded into the drive.