generator/alternator conversion

[ichthos]

My wife likes to drive the bugeye with the headlights on and normally has her Droid hooked up. Over a period of days, the battery voltage gradually goes down. On another post about headlights, the subject of generator to alternator conversion was brought up. Does anyone know of a company that does the conversion and keeps the tach drive operational? I have found a couple of companies that basically put a new alternator in your old generator, but are not able to make it so the tach drive is operational. If I were to do a conversion without the tach drive, how else could I hook up the tachometer? I want my car to look original, but I am tired of a whimpy charging system. Any help would greatly be appreciated.
Kevin

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Frank C. used to take apart a mechanical tach and insert later guts. Somewhere I've got a copy of the M & P's to do it but if you aren't concerned about keeping mechanical tach drive that's an alternative.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Did you see this thread.

From a discussion on the big Healey forum, alternators that look like generators: https://www.powerlite-units.co.uk/dynalite.htm Looks like they even have a tach drive one.

 

[John Kuzman]

I looked into this option a few years ago, and converting from a generator to alternator with mechanical tach drive is quite common in the old tractor world. It is pricy, but here is one example:

https://www.cheaptractorparts.com/p-22788-alternator-kit-2000-7000.aspx

 

[Jimflorida]

Palo Alto Speedometer will do the conversion on your old mechanical tach for $290 or so. Pricey, but if you do not want to do it yourself, it keeps the tach looking original and working when you change to the alternator.

 

[dklawson]

As a parallel comment, Palo Alto does gauge conversion work routinely for the classic Porsches. You can trust them to do a good job.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Here is the PDF File on doing a conversion yourself. I know Frank C. had a simpler way let me look a little more.

https://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/Sprite_Electronic_Tach.pdf

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Here it is. Love Frank's comments at the beginning. We all miss his wisdom.

If you do NOT agree with these ideas, if you are "mechanically challenged" or are just down right "stupid" I suggest you perchase New parts from a supplier of your choice and have a local shop do this work for you.
Frank Clarici
Electric Tachometer Face Swap for Bugeye
BUGEYE TACHOMETER CONVERSION

Many Bugeye owners are confronted with the problem of sorting out a tach drive once they have converted either to an alternator or discover that they cannot find a mechanical tach drive at a reasonable price. Frank Clarici offers a great piece of advice on how to convert an electronic tack over to negative ground. I have taken his advice one step further. Many Bugeye owners do not want to give up the stock look of the original gauges, so I have outlined here how to solve the tach drive as well as the stock looking gauges problem.

You will need:
• original Bugeye tach
• tach from a Mk3 Sprite or Mk2 Midget (this is an electric tach, the same diameter as the Bugeye)
• Frank Clarici instructions on how to convert to negative ground (if your car is negative ground)
• Small standard screwdriver
• touch up paint (optional)
1 Hour labor Procedure:
• Remove the front chrome ring, glass and seals from both tachometers by twisting the ring. The rubber seal on them may need to be replaced.
• Very carefully remove the RPM indicator needle from each of the tachs by pulling straight off the post.
• Using a small screwdriver remove the 2 small screws that hold the face plate of each tach.
• The screw spacing is different for the faceplates, lay the Mk3 faceplate over the Bugeye face plate and using a small drill bit, drill the 2 holes in the proper location. Be very careful how much pressure you put on the faceplates as they are very soft and can be deformed.
• (OPTIONAL) Use super glue to affix a thin patch to the backside of the faceplate or fill the hole with epoxy, to cosmetically close and paint the old screw holes in the Bugeye faceplate.
• Install the Bugeye faceplate and RPM needle onto the electronic tachometer.
• Reinstall the tach chrome ring and glass with new rubber seal if needed.
• Install reconfigured tach into car dash and do electrical hook up. You will connect a 12 volt line to the spade connector on the rear, the case is grounded and a length of wire will go from the coil, loop around the sensor pickup on the rear of the tach, and back to the points terminal on the distributor.

 

[nomad]

The Mk2 midget or Mk3 sprite tach does not work particularly well with an electronic ignition. Also seem to remember Frank using a table fork to gently pry the needle's off the tach's. I believe the later tach's can be used in the same way.

Kurt.

 

[ichthos]

Thanks for all the leads/advice! I will be checking them out tonight. I already emailed the British company listed and will have to wait for a reply. I appreciate the directions on doing it myself, but am not sure I am ready to attempt the conversion my self just yet. I have used Palo Alto Speedometer before and have been happy with their work too. I am unclear on some of the information given. Does Palo Alto speedometer do the generator to alternator conversions? Is the $290 just to convert just the tach drive so it will work witht the alternator?
Kevin

 

[Jimflorida]

Their charge is to convert your existing mechanical tach into an electric tach so that it will work with your new alternator, but still look original.

 

[ichthos]

Thanks, Jim. Has anyone actually had the conversion done by someone they are happy with? If so, by whom? Does the voltage regulator have to be altered also? Is this as simple as just putting the new alternator in, or do I need to make any adjustments?
Kevin

 

[dklawson]

There are two topics being discussed and I am having a bit of trouble keeping them separated in my thoughts.

Palo Alto: Speedometer/Tachometer work only. No alternators.
The movement Frank C. used would probably have been the RVI type (impulse) tach that wires in series with the current flowing through the coil. You are correct, they typically do not work with electronic ignitions. HOWEVER, that is not to say you could not perform the same conversion using a much later RVC (voltage sensing) tach. If you are re-using your existing gauge case, face, and needle, what will be involved is modifying the case to mount the electronic movement and perhaps drilling two tiny holes to attach the gauge face. After that it will obviously be necessary to re-calibrate the tach.

DynaLite: Power electrics only (Alternators that look like generators)
You said you have written the company. I did that years ago when a friend in the U.K. sent me a link. Be sitting down when you read their reply. Hopefully their prices will have dropped but about 5 years ago their "plain" alternator (without the tach drive) cost about $800 delivered from the U.K. At the time Moss Europe sold their products so I thought it might be possible to get them to supply it for less. The price was about the same.

Voltage Control Box: If you are going to use the DynaLite, ask them about whether they use internal or external electronics. Regardless, they will NOT use the existing control box for the generator. However, there is a good article on the Mini Mania web site about how to "gut" an old control box and convert it for use as a junction box during an alternator conversion. The reason to do this is it 1)keeps the original look, and 2) allows most of the alternator conversion to be done WITHOUT cutting the existing wires in your harness. That allows you to easily go back to the generator later if you want to. See the link below for more information.

Mini Mania Article on Converting a Control Box to Junction Box

 

[ichthos]

The more I check into this, the more expensive and complicated it is getting. I checked with a shop in Oregon who says they can upgrade my generator so that it will produce 50 amps, put in an internal voltage regulator, and not have to make any other alterations to my charging system to reinstall it. I would still be able to use my mechanical tach drive. It is still not cheap, around $500, but it might be the most unobtrusive and cheaper options in the long run. Does anyone know how many amps a stock generator puts out on a bugeye?
Kevin

 

[nomad]

Voltage Control Box: If you are going to use the DynaLite, ask them about whether they use internal or external electronics. Regardless, they will NOT use the existing control box for the generator. However, there is a good article on the Mini Mania web site about how to "gut" an old control box and convert it for use as a junction box during an alternator conversion. The reason to do this is it 1)keeps the original look, and 2) allows most of the alternator conversion to be done WITHOUT cutting the existing wires in your harness. That allows you to easily go back to the generator later if you want to. See the link below for more information.

Mini Mania Article on Converting a Control Box to Junction Box

I kept the control box and used it as a junction box and a place to store an updated wiring diagram for the changes I made for the alternator and added relays for lights. Diagram is inside a baggie so it is safe from moisture.

Kurt.

 

[dklawson]

Does anyone know how many amps a stock generator puts out on a bugeye?
Kevin

I THINK all the Spridgets (with generators) used variations of the Lucas C40 rated for 22 Amps. There were versions for other cars that put out a bit more current but nothing close to the 34 Amps of the first puny Lucas alternators.

There is a company in the U.S. who produce products similar to the DyanaLite. Google for "Powergen" and take a look at their products. They are focused on American cars but you might find something similar (excluding the tach drive) and who knows... perhaps they can undertake the conversion for less than the $500 you have been quoted.

 

[Sarastro]

Does anyone know how many amps a stock generator puts out on a bugeye?

I think it's about 20 amps. Maybe 22, depending on how they spec it.

A 55-amp alternator is really nice on these cars. It will end your problems in keeping the battery charged and may extend the battery life, too. The real dilemma, as you realize, is the tach.

 

[ichthos]

The guy in Oregon says he can keep it as a generator and still give me 50 amps. He also has to convert the voltage regulator. I think it will be my best bet in the long run if I still want the mechanical tach drive. I need to blast and powdercoat a spare before I send it in. I will let you all know how it turns out. Thanks again for all your help.
Kevin

 

[Sarastro]

Just one point--be sure that the guy in Oregon knows that it has to use the same size pulley, so the tach works right, and he can't do anything to change the tach operation. I am worried that the upgrade he's considering may include changing the tach pulley so the generator runs faster.

You also might want to ask specifically what will be done to the generator. The brushes and armature probably are not designed for 50 amps, and if the armature is changed out, that could affect the tach drive. If not, it might get really hot, and that isn't good.

 

[LarryK]

Check with Powerlite Units before sending to an unkown. Powerlite can make an altenator out of the old generator to your specs and will guide you thru the upgrades. Gives you more power for extra lights and electrical accessories.