Front wheel bearing grease packing

[TulsaFred]

I have my stock B/E front hubs off (drum brakes).

Are the wheel bearings (stock ball bearings) press fit?

What is the proper method of packing them with grease? Do the bearings need to come out of the hub, or just fill with grease behind the hub cover?

tia
Fred

 

[Guest]

For what I consider a proper repack is removal, cleaning of bearing and hub, repack, replace. The bearings are easily removed by knocking them out from the other side. Tap a little in one place, then again directly across from there. Pay attention to which side faces out. Both bearings are directional. Remove, clean and repack one bearing at a time. IIRC, they come aprt easily too, so watch how hard you tap it out and be ready to catch bits with your free hand.

Once clean, remove the center spacer, taking note of which way it is facing. Clean it and oput it to the side in relation to how it went in. Same thing w/ the bearing. once everyhting is out, clean out the hub. Mineral sprints is usually what's used, but gas and diesel are cheaper.

To repack, Lisle makes a power packer w/ grease supplied by a grease gun. That's what I usually use. To hand pack, I hold the bearing in one hand w/ my thumb covering the center hole. Scoop some grease out with the other hand, wipe it on the area your thumd is pointing at, then push it through the bearing with the palm of your hand. Slide your palm acrioss the bearing while doing this. it's very natural and you'll get the hand of it. Do this till grease comes out the other side. You could disassemble the bearing, but that's a pain and east to loose lose balls.

Once both bearings are packed, smear grease around the innner part of the hub cavity from the rear, place the spacer in, fill in the area around it w/ grease, install the rear bearing, place some grease around the outter edge, install seal, wipe off excess. PLace hub on spindle ( which should have already been cleaned), fill any empty cavity with grease, place outter bearing in, smear around the edge, replace washer, nut and pin. I put a little grease in the cap too. The idea is to have a ready supply of grease on either end of each bearing but not too much.

I use EP high moly grease on all the bearings on the enduro car. Same stuff can go in CV's too. Supposedly you'r not supposed to use moly on ball bearings. Well, the car ran 400 miles w/ a top speed of 150 for 6 hours with no problems. This is how and what I do, YMMV. I'm sure someone here might have simpler way of doing this. Hope this helps.

 

[regularman]

Tapered rollers are cheaper than the original thrust bearings.

 

[Guest]

Tapered rollers are cheaper than the original thrust bearings.

is there a good pt number for those now? I remember somoene did a search for the holy grail but I thought it was an almost thing.

 

[TulsaFred]

What's wrong with these bearings supplied by VB:

https://www.victoriabritish.com/icatalog/sm/full.aspx?Page=88

Fred

 

[TulsaFred]

Kelly,
to clarify:
the inner bearing is installed from the inner side of the hub, and the outer bearing from the outer side?
Do you need a press, or just use a socket to drift them in?
How do you know how far to drift it in?

Fred

 

[The_architect]

Fred,
Lots of research on this dreaded topic. Front wheel bearing paper. The proper inner bearing seems difficult to come by because those sold by many of the usual sources no longer are made to the OEM dimensions--hundreds of posts have been written about this, but the paper I've linked to seems to be the best explanation.

I removed the bearings from several hubs last summer. I have read various people saying to knock them out by the outer race with a drift from the other side, but I just did not see any way to knock out either outer race from the inside with a drift while the spacer ("distance piece" in the VB catalog) is in the way.

I found I had to drift the first one of them out by tapping the inner cage. Once it was out, then I could remove the spacer and knock the other out by tapping on its outer race. You will see where a couple of notches have been milled out of the wall of the hub 180 degrees from each other--that is where you put your drift.

If you must remove them, take the one on the hubcap side off first. Then you can remove the spacer and will give you plenty of clearance to knock out the bearing that goes toward the grease seal. It seems to be the one that is difficult to replace with a correct part. And you don't want to damage it if you think it might be reusable.

I highly recommend that you put them through a parts washer and see how tight they are. Out of four hubs I disassembled I only found one bearing I thought was good enough to reuse once I had taken the old grease out.

They both tap into the hub from the outside.

If you do knock them apart save the balls--for fun I did manage to put several of the bearings back together after I knocked them apart. Not sure I would use them, but they seem fine.

By the way, <span style="text-decoration: underline">Speedwell Engineering</span> makes a kit with tapered wheel bearings. Apparently the secret is not in the wheel bearings, which are commonly available. It is in the shimming of the bearings, and the kit includes the shims. I have not tried them.


Charlie

 

[Guest]

Kelly,
to clarify:
the inner bearing is installed from the inner side of the hub, and the outer bearing from the outer side?
Do you need a press, or just use a socket to drift them in?
How do you know how far to drift it in?

Fred

Looking at each one, they come out towards you. Reach in from the other (back) side with a 3/8" extension, cock it to one side, tap gently, move extension directly across from where you just were ( if 6 o clock, then move to 12) and tap again. Do this till it comes out. You'll see the sholder where there stop at in the hub once they are out. When tapping in, tap on ther OUTTER race till it stops. Work your way across like before and all the way around. Nothing wrong with the bearings from VB that I know of...other than they are comming from VB and God only knows what you'll get.

 

[nomad]

Bought A set of those from the usual suspects (County brand I believe). They had almost as much play in them new as the old ones I was going to replace. I believe the outer bearing is the half outer race type and I have a couple of ruined hubs from those type bearings. The bearings from the usual suspects will work in a pinch but I don't like them when compared to original. I believe I used the inner bearing and reused a original outer if i recall correctly. Since I have been salvaging old bearings and buying NOS when I could find it. Doesn't show up anymore.

Kurt.

 

[tomshobby]

There was a research project on this subject. It involved several knowledgeable people in different areas. And OEM bearings were found after 1 1/2 years of searching. These were the only bearing that was found to fit. And that is considering your hubs and spindles are not worn.

There is one taper bearing that is close to fitting and can be made to fit by shimming or by grinding the bearing radius. Just know that Timken recommends against the grinding. The reason is explained in the posted link. However there is a school of thought that if the rollers are kept from bouncing it should be OK.

https://smithtr6.com/bearings.htm

And about packing these bearings, John Twist had a write up about how to do it without ruining the bearings. Might be good to read it before trying to remove the inside bearing.

This is the source and information for the OEM bearings. Yes they are expensive but the first turn of the hub after they were installed told me that I did the right thing. And I had spent much more money trying other ill fitting bearings.

Hi Tom,

2 pieces R&M 3MJT17 at 55.00 each.

There is NO Sales Tax to be applied to this sale.

Bearings ( 2 x 34LJT25 and 2 x 3MJT17 ) at 200.00 GB Pounds toal.

Insured Airmail is 25.00 GB Pounds.

Total transaction value 225.00 GB Pounds.

Visa payment is fine - please include the following details :

1. Start Date if shown

2. Expiry Date

3. Last 3 Security Digits on the back of the card.

4. 16 digit number across the face of the card.

Regards

Graham Naughton
Director


Email bearinginfo@gmail.com
Tel 0044 1132 631919
Fax 0044 1132 631913

 

[nomad]

Tom: I've read your info before and I thank you for the time and trouble that went into it. Wasn't aware you bit the bullet in the end and bought the bearings from UK. For what they are getting for them you would think some one would retool to compete.

Thanks again,

Kurt.

 

[The_architect]

Yeah, at current exchange rates that is $350 for two sets of front wheel bearings. That blows my [somewhat fragile] mind!!

Although, I have not read in any of this research that there is any problem with the replacement outer bearings. Any opinion on that Tom? If one bought those from the usual suspects he could save a lot of money right there.

Charlie

 

[TulsaFred]

I contacted R and M by email, and they quoted me a new higher price:
265 GB pounds shipped

That's $415.36 !!!

For wheel bearings? Are you kidding me? I'm not working on a Ferrari.

Victoria British sells replacement ball bearings for $110 total. Apparently they don't fit correctly, but will they work for an occasionally driven collector car?

Winners Circle sells tapered roller bearings for $154.95 and say they fit correctly. Here is the email I received:
<<Fred,
Yes I have them. And yes you can install them. Some people sell the incorrect numbers so
they don't fit. We sell the correct ones. They are always available. 154.95 for the set inners and
outers for both sides. Let me know.
Thanks Rob>>

But Speedwell Engineering in California states that their tapered roller bearings are the correct ones for $194.50, and that they could sell what the other "clowns" sell but they are not right for my car. For another $40 I'll have the correct fitting bearings:
https://www.speedwellengineering.com/suspension/tapered-front-wheel-bearing-conversion/

I'm confused.

Fred

 

[kalist]

Purchased mine from winners circle. No problems.

 

[aeronca65t]

I've been running the stock (ball-type) wheel bearings in my race car for over 10 years. I generally change them every 2 years although they're usually fine still. $40 a side from Moss.

Part of the reason I like the stock bearings is because they allow the use of the distance piece (between them) which I believe acts as a stiffener for the front axle.
Remember, with the stock ball-type bearings, the axle nut gets torqued up pretty tight, firmly clamping the distance piece between the bearings. Can't do that with roller bearings.

Your mileage may vary. :wink:

 

[tomshobby]

Yeah, at current exchange rates that is $350 for two sets of front wheel bearings. That blows my [somewhat fragile] mind!!

Although, I have not read in any of this research that there is any problem with the replacement outer bearings. Any opinion on that Tom? If one bought those from the usual suspects he could save a lot of money right there.

Charlie

Charlie, that should work fine.

 

[TulsaFred]

aeronca65t,

that info is very helpful, and yes Moss has the best price at $40 per side.
If you run these for two years at a time in a race car without problems, that's good enough for me. While they may have technical issues related to the fillet radius on the stub axle, it sounds from your experience that this may not be as much an issue as it may seem.

Fred

BTW,
I received a reply from Speedwell clarifying that they were not referring to Winners Circle on their website:
<<Hi there and thank you for your inquiry. On the Speedwell website I stated that "some" others are selling , etc. etc. etc.
I consider myself a real friend of The Winners Circle and have known Dave and Rob for well over 25 years and what they sell has always been of the highest quality. Regarding the wheel bearings though, I honestly have no idea which bearings they have in their conversion kit so I cannot answer your question. I do know that MiniMania and others are NOT selling the bearings that properly fit.
Thanks again,
Tom Colby>>

 

[tomshobby]

The problem with the Timken bearings is that the radius that fits against the stub face is too small and does not allow the bearing to fit all the way on. (because of inconsistencies there are a very few stubs that have smaller radii)
So they will either require a spacer to fit in between the stub face and bearing or the bearing radius will need to be ground which has its own possible problems. However it is what I would do and I would either pack the bearing or use electrical tape around to keep the rollers from vibrating. It is the vibrations that cause the rollers to get very minute nicks which lead to early failure.
Leaving the bearings sit out and shimming or not will leave the seal ride closer to the edge and with the 30205 bearing the seal will likely not even contact the surface. See the drawings on my web page. Listed earlier here.

I have been discussing this with one of the major suppliers recently and it might lead to some good result. BTW - It is something that I have no financial interest in whatsoever.

 

[TulsaFred]

Tom,
if ball bearings from Moss only have the issue of the fillet radius relative to the inner bearing, why can't I just use a shim against the stub axle that is as thick as the radius to eliminate it. Only 1 or 2 mm.
Drum brakes.
Fred

 

[regularman]

I am trying to remember what I did to make it work back then when I did my midget but I used a 30205 and 30303. Bearings were 10-12 bucks a piece. You don't have to go with timken unless you just want to pay a lot. Those numbers transfer to all bearing makers.