Coolant Recovery System

[chuck1006]

Hi,
Has anyone installed a coolant recovery system? I added a flex fan to my 100-6 and it ran at a good temp during a test run but when I stopped at the store the temp increased to the point that radiator fluid belched out. After starting out again the temp went back down to the good point. My timing is 15 degrees at 600 rpm although there is some fluxuation when scoping.
Thanks,
Chuck /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[AndrewMawson]

Try wobbling the cam on your distributor - I bet from what you say about the fluctuation that it moves more laterally than it should.

Is your mixture set a bit weak ?

What air temperature are you running in and what temp do you define as 'good' ?

 

[Dave Russell]

Hi chuck,

It's not uncommon for some coolant to push out after shutting down, especially if the system is too full. When the fan air flow & water pump flow are cut off by shutting down, the internal temperatures can rise quite a bit from residual heat. The original instructions said to leave the coolant level a couple of inches low.

Leaving this air space just encourages air to mix with the coolant. I would definitely add a coolant recovery tank. With a recovery tank, you need to be sure that the filler cap has a good top seal at the top of the filler neck. NAPA cap #703-1411 has a good rubber top seal that I have had good luck with.

One thing to check - The English radiators use a longer filler neck & most caps are too short to pressure seal the system. The correct cap measures one inch from inside top to the main neck seal. Many "standard" caps are shorter than this. The 703-1411 cap is listed for an old Ford tractor or some such.

Cape International sells a nice coolant recovery tank. Or any old store bought jug will work. If you want something nice in metal, Goza Racing Products has an aluminum tank #GZR1414. Any of the tanks will fit nicely on the RH vertical shroud support. You can see the GOZA tank installed here:
https://www.britishcarforum.com/PHPhotoalbum/displayimage.php?pid=45
D

 

[chuck1006]

Hi Andrew,
I will check out the cam. If it wobbles, doe that mean buying new or is rebuilding possible? Since my oil/temp gauge is not correct, I am guessing good is 180-185 degrees F. In Phoenix it's getting up to 110 degrees F but my last test run was in the morning at probably 85 degrees F.
Thanks,
Chuck

 

[chuck1006]

Hi Dave,
My radiator cap is correct but I may have had the water level too high. Here is a coolant recovery system done by Steve Byers that is on Jim Werner's Healey site. https://hometown.aol.com/bgahc/01_jwha_coolantrecovery.html
He modeled it after the system on his MG Midget. It seems kind of wierd to not have the radiator cap fit all the way down but to let the overflow tank do the seal. What do you think?
Thanks,
Chuck

 

[Keoke]

Chuck 1006, It does not make any difference where the sealing cap is located.On my car both the radiator and the overflow bottle have pressure caps with the overflow bottle's being the higher rating.-FWIW---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

 

[AndrewMawson]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Andrew,
I will check out the cam. If it wobbles, doe that mean buying new or is rebuilding possible? Since my oil/temp gauge is not correct, I am guessing good is 180-185 degrees F. In Phoenix it's getting up to 110 degrees F but my last test run was in the morning at probably 85 degrees F.
Thanks,
Chuck

[/ QUOTE ]

Cam Wobble: wear between the distributor body bushing and the main shaft and / or the main shaft and cam will make your timing fluctuate. My original distributor (1964) had 8 thou wobble - if you reckon that the points gap is only 15 thou thats a lot of variation (though I've not done the maths to turn 1 thou of variation into degrees of timing!) A "rebuilt" one turned out to have about the same play. This afternoon I've just assembled one from the bits of two distributors and managed to reduce the play to about 4 thou but haven't had time to fit it on the car. If the timing is going to vary then you cannot risk timing the engine to maximum advance, as the wobble will occasionally give you more advance than is healthy and will pink. Consequentially you will be running a bit retarded and hence hotter.

Temperatures: Figures like those don't exist over here !!!! 110 F is 43 C - here we are lucky to see 25 C - today it's 18 C so I reckon if you are running at 190 F on the guage you're doing pretty well /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif My BJ8 runs on the dot of 190 F but gets too hot in traffic (212 and above)so I have a 5 blade plastic fan on order.

 

[Klepper]

If you have a recovery bottle, but the seal is at the rad cap, how does the fluid get back to the rad after it cools? Wouldn't the cap prevent it from suctioning back?

 

[Dave Russell]

[ QUOTE ]
(though I've not done the maths to turn 1 thou of variation into degrees of timing!) ---managed to reduce the play to about 4 thou but haven't had time to fit it on the car.

[/ QUOTE ]
Andrew,
I think it would be hard to calculate. The cams actually have a somewhat complex profile. You could get some idea of timing variation with point gap by measuring the dwell at various point settings. Of course the dwell reading is an average for all cylinders, but should still give you a good idea of the relationship.

If you were looking for "perfection" you could turn the spindle down to a uniform non-tapered form & fit a thinwall bushing inside the cam. I suspect that, as all things of the period before dead precision machining, the parts were originally selective fit.

The Pertronix Hall Effect triggering is pretty much immune to these problems.
D

 

[Dave Russell]

Klepper,
There is actually a small oneway valve in the bottom of the cap. The coolant suctions back easily.
D

 

[Keoke]

HI Klepper, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif The return of coolant by suction is as Dave responded via the two way valves located in the cap.-Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif

 

[AndrewMawson]

[ QUOTE ]

If you were looking for "perfection" you could turn the spindle down to a uniform non-tapered form & fit a thinwall bushing inside the cam. I suspect that, as all things of the period before dead precision machining, the parts were originally selective fit.

The Pertronix Hall Effect triggering is pretty much immune to these problems.
D

[/ QUOTE ]

Close examination of the cam assembly suggests that there is a thinwall bush pressed into it and swaged at four points on one end. I've just 'won' a cheap non Healey 25D dizzy on ebay that I'll use for experiments - I'm going to try unswaging and pressing out the bush and replacing it with teflon.

 

[chuck1006]

I found an aluminum tank for under $50 at:
https://www.pitstopusa.com/searchresult.aspx?CategoryID=3276
It is for overflow only (does not have a fill cap) but I will do the filling through the regular radiator cap.
Chuck

 

[Dave Russell]

Hi Chuck,
There is some difference between a "catch can" as shown & a recovery tank. The "can" is intended to be a one way device that just catches the overflow & is drained out through the valve at the bottom.

An open type recovery tank is designed to have it's radiator connection effectively under water so that as the system cools, the coolant is sucked back into the radiator through the one way valve in the filler cap. It also has a vent line near the top to allow excess pressure to escape & a filler cap.

In it's usual configuration, the recovery tank has a radiator overflow connection at the top with a dip tube (siphon) which extends nearly to the bottom of the tank.

The only way to make a "catch can" work this way would be to connect the radiator overflow line to the bottom drain valve connection, omit the drain valve. The top connection could be connected to an open vent line.

In concept, a plastic jug with a hole in the lid & a hose from the radiator that extends through the hole to the BOTTOM of the jug, would work. Of course you would still need a vent hole in the jug located somewhere near the top.

There are many recovery tanks available in auto dismantling yards. Most are plastic but you might find a metal one.

The particular tank that I used was a hybrid design that has a center top connection that extends to the bottom of the tank. It also has a drain valve on the bottom, which I don't use, a connection near the top for a vent line, & a sight glass on the side. I added a filler plug on the top.

In any event, select something that has the radiator connection at the bottom of the can.
D

 

[Johnny]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi,
Has anyone installed a coolant recovery system? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Chuck. Yes I added a CRS (coolant recovery system) to my BN7 upon going to San Antonio TX for AHCA Conclave. It worked great! I bought it at a local "Autozone" here in St. Louis. Installed in about 15 minutes. They actually had two sizes available, one large, one smaller. Priced at $9.99 and $6.99 respectively. I chose the smaller one. Don't forget to add the rubber sealing ring (included in the kit) to the fill cap on radiator. I then overfilled the rad actually, and added another pint to the new tank so the coolant level was above the hose connection to the rad. My thinking is to maintain max coolant levels at all temps. Must of worked because even in the hot San Antonio temps my car never overheated, and that's with the old stock 2 bladed fan. The tank fits perfectly in the RH frame support, I didn't even have to drill a mounting screw hole, as it slipped under a wiring harness clip.

Good Luck, I know the temps in Phoenix are greater than San Antonio and St Louis, but our humidity levels are much higher, not sure if this contributes, again greetings.
Please click on the attachment button above to view a picture of the crs mounted in the car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[chuck1006]

Thanks to all for the advice. I decided to go with the one Jonny used. It's not as nice as the aluminum one I was originally going to get but it fits well without drilling new holes. So far so good. I still need to check out the timing studder but that will be a separate post.
Chuck

 

[Geo Hahn]

Thanks Johnny -- I picked one up today... nice small size made it easy to tuck in unobtrusively. I did remove that funky foil label and paint the cap black so it didn't look too much like a FLAP item.

As you noted, they include a gasket to seal up the rad cap on open systems. 105F this afternoon so it looked like it was a good day to try this.

 

[Dave Russell]

I briefly tried one of the described systems. It looked so out of place & kind of tacky that I replaced it with a metal can. Just didn't seem to be in keeping with the rest of the car. The plastic jug is a good choice if you are severely budget limited. To each his own.
D

 

[Geo Hahn]

Good point. Mine is on a TR3A in which the front apron comes way over the top of the radiator. The recovery bottle is out by the headlight (had to remove the RH horn to get in there). I'm not concerned with concours judges, most other folks will never see it in there. Not very handy, but then this is a car that requires a major body panel to be removed to get at the radiator.

If it was harder to hide (like on a Big Healey) I would go with something more period correct or do without.

 

[GregW]

I know this is an old thread, but I installed a recovery tank today. I contemplated making my own until I found a polished stainless steel tank that was cheaper ($32) than what the raw materials would have cost. It’s a 3” tube 10”s tall with a nice knurled cap. I made a simple bracket that mounts it to the radiator bolts. One modification I had to make to the tank was put a bigger barb on it so the tube from the radiator would fit. I think it makes a pretty clean install for our cars. Check it out.