TR4/4A Coolant in the oil - again.

[tdskip]

So what led me to pull the head and replace the head gasket was I had coolant in the oil accompanied by coolant blowing out the overflow tank once hot. I didn't know I had coolant in the oil as I didn't have any aeration of the oil on the dipstick and my oil pressure was good.

I finished reinstalling the Moss composite head gasket yesterday, bolted everything back together and just fired her up after adding coolant and I am getting significant oil and coolant mixing now - you can actually see the aerated mix coming out of the rocker oil weep holes.

It only ran for about a minute before I noticed the aerated oil - I was tuning the carbs so it would idle properly after the oil pressure came up (I did spin it over without plugs in it first to prime it).

I just checked the #1 bolt to tighten in the head torquing sequence and it about 1/2 turn before the torque wrench clicked at 100 ft pounds.

Needless to say I am slightly discouraged here.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

Did you have the head magged or pressure tested while it was off?
In the shops, always, everytime, when doing any head gasket, especially if there was no indication of a blown gasket when you got it apart.


That said, other marques, cracked block....coolant into the inlet manifold.....you should see one plug steamed whiter than others if it's in the combustion chamber.

Cracks can be in a port, requires removal of valves to find.

TR-4's have liners..right? Been a LOT of years. Those can do it right now.
I would suppose plugs out, run a pressure tester...leave it on for a while...then look down the holes to see if you have wet cylinders...then remove tester and crank it WITHOUT standing in front of the plug holes....had a guy in the shops once who could not take direction and he was green after that little escapade.
If no moisture, block or liner seals?

Heads....I always run until t-stat opens and re-tork...even no-retork gaskets.
Of course that's from my Flathead and Fel-Pro days.

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/35017-weeping-cylinder-liner-seal/

 

[tdskip]

Hi TOC - thanks for the note.

I did not have the head tested, just made sure it was flat.

Your memory is correct! These engine have liners, they were at or above spec, but one was right at minimum spec.

I did remember seeing coolant in stud opening #7 when I pulled everything part. Is that normal?

I was thinking to change the oil to make sure nothing was residual from the prior coolant / oil mixing but there is way too much coolant in the oil (which was changed and is fresh) for it to be residual.

 

[mallard]

I would remove the rocker cover and wipe off all the oil on top of the head and then let it sit for a couple days and see if you have any coolant showing on top of the head. I would look at the stud #8&9 and at the plug by #1 to see if they are leaking. If you have leaks at 8 or 9 that may indicate a cracked block. Good luck, it took me three tries to get mine to seal.

 

[tdskip]

Thanks for the note Keith. If the engine isn't turned over will the coolant still reach the top of the head?

 

[martx-5]

What about the aluminum plug in the top of the head? If that's leaking, oil and water will mix.

 

[tdskip]

What about the aluminum plug in the top of the head? If that's leaking, oil and water will mix.

Hi Art - I don't think that is leaking. Randall offered that suggestion and I tapped it and checked it out and it seems OK. I think coolant is getting into the oil passage ways as the oil/coolant is very mixed and aerated. It is being pumped all the way up to the rocker, so I am thinking it is more than just weeping coolant. Thanks for the idea however!

Is it normal for the holes where the head studs go to be wet? I noticed that the #7 tightening sequence one was when I removed the studs originally.

 

[mallard]

If the radiator is filled it will.

 

[tdskip]

Ah, good point. Didn't think about that.

Thanks Keith.

 

[TR3driver]

If you drained the coolant from the block before taking it apart, then there should not be any coolant in the stud holes. But it's tough to get it fully drained, so I wouldn't get too excited, just check carefully in that area for cracks.

TOC's suggestion of pressurizing the cooling system and looking for where the coolant comes out is a good one; I would extend that to pulling the pan and looking up at the bottom of the block while the pressure is still on. Might be a Fo8 gasket leaking, or a block crack somewhere down below. Also listen for any hissing noises, in case the leak is on top. You can also repeat the test with higher pressure, after you block off the fittings for the heater and radiator.

 

[tdskip]

Hi Randall. I did drain the coolant prior to doing the head work. Should there be any coolant in the head stud holes on a healthy block?

How do you guys like to pressurize the system for the initial test? Compressed air on to the overflow hose?

Keith - I cleaned the top of the head very well and the radiator is still full so we'll see if anything leaks.

Thanks!

 

[TR3driver]

No, the stud cavities both short and long are supposed to be "dry".

I used a Schrader valve screwed into a stack of adapters and the heater outlet; but that was just what I had on hand (it's actually still there). A purpose-made pressure tester would be preferable (and is what TOC is referring to, I think).
https://www.harborfreight.com/radiator-pressure-tester-kit-69258.html

Compressed air into the overflow tube would work, I think, but you'd have to be very careful not to overpressurize. With the system full of coolant, it only takes a tiny bit of air to run the pressure up (not at all like filling a tire) and I'm not sure how much the radiator (& heater core) will stand before starting to come apart.

 

[tdskip]

OK - two of mine were wet, the same two that stuck up higher than the rest, when I took them out and I could see fluid in the holes where they went.

Not good I assume...

Thanks Randall.

 

[mallard]

Did you find the two wet studs after you cleaned everything on top of the head? That was only a little over one hour.

 

[tdskip]

Sorry if I was confusing - the studs were wet when they came out and the holes wet when the head was off.

I have not check the head since I cleaned/dried it a couple hours ago yet.

 

[tdskip]

Good morning.

Keith - the head was dry near the studs.

#1) Is it worth re-torquing all the head bolts, draining fluid and oil, and giving it another go?

OR

#2) I am realistically looking at a tear down at this point?

My thinking is #2 since this has happened twice, and got worse suddenly.

 

[mallard]

There is some good news here, block may not be cracked at the problem studs. Randall may have the right idea with the FO8 gasket leaking. You may want to drop the pan and look around the bottom of the liners for any sign of coolant.

 

[tdskip]

Thanks Keith.

Would it be a good idea to drain coolant and cycle some fresh oil through the engine?

 

[mallard]

I would investigate so more first. I would not start the engine again. Unless you are just running straight water as coolant I would not drain it yet. I would give it some time and wait and see if you can find the leak.