Brake Drum Help - 60 Sprite

[Trevor Jessie]

The wheel cylinder you bought if a touch bigger than the originals. This is common and more so apparent when the later style brakes are used early style axle housings. Is it just contacting the rubber or is it hitting the metal?

 

[mikeamondo]

It's the existing cylinder... I haven't put in my new ones yet. It's contacting the rubber, not the metal. It's dug a grove in it. I thought it wasn't hitting before I pulled it apart, but I just checked the pics I took prior to taking off the shoes and it looks like it was touching before. And... on the other side, it was damage to the rubber that blew the cylinder.

So what can be done about it?

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Do you have an angle grinder? If so, you can pull the hubs back off and just grind off the corners.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

BTW, those are the dust seals. The fluid is held in by inner seals, but failure of the dust seals can cause the inner seals to fail sooner.

 

[mikeamondo]

So given that they are just dust shields, if it dug a grove into them but didn't puncture a hole, it should be okay? Not great, but not a disaster....

Sitting here with my bandaged hand the words "Pull the hub back out" kind of make my head explode. Might be something that needs to wait until the next go around to fix completely.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

If you have a dremel and any patience left, you could grind those shoulders when you take the brake shoes off.

 

[mikeamondo]

I do have a dremel... and perhaps a smidge more patience this morning. Thanks for the suggestion. The brakes are off on both sides, car on jack stands. I should have 1 or 2 days until the two new shoes and a couple other parts arrive so maybe I'll take a shot at it.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Are you replacing the drums as well? If so I should warn you that they may require a bit of modification as well.

 

[mikeamondo]

Are you replacing the drums as well? If so I should warn you that they may require a bit of modification as well.

I'm afraid to ask... but how so? I have new drums here already, shoes on the way, springs, etc....

 

[Trevor Jessie]

The drums may rub the back plate (again, because the axle is early style and brake back plate is later style). If they do rub, you can go around them a few times with and angle grinder or take them to a brake place that turns rotors and ask them to remove a little material. If I recall correctly it is about 1/16 of an inch. Take a look at your old drums and see if they have been modified.

 

[Rut]

Mike,
Another easy way to do it is to mount the drum backwards and run the engine enough to rotate it while using an angle grinder to shave it down.
Rut

 

[mikeamondo]

Ok.... starting to reassemble the brakes. I had the drums lathed down by a local machinist... just wanted make sure they were perfectly cut down. And.... I used a dremel tool to grind down the back side of the studs where they meet the hub, where they were contacting the brake cylinder. That mostly worked but was still hitting a bit, so I used the grinder tool on the rubber of the cylinder very carefully to not go all the way thru, but to make a groove... worked quite nicely.

Now... onto Circlip ****. So I bought the circlip tool from Moss, and found a nice video on Mini Mania about how to use it. Of course, that was being done on a new back plate on a work bench. Problem is, on my car, the brake line input on the cylinder lines up with the suspension component and does not leave enough room to fit the Circlip tool. So... do I need to remove the back plate to get this installed, or is there another way to get the clip in place without the tool? I don't think a shorter bolt in the tool would work, but it might be worth a shot....
ideas?

 

[Trevor Jessie]

They can be put on with careful prying with a screwdriver... and much cussing. I prefer the external circlip and wavy washer.

 

[histerical]

Mike,
Another easy way to do it is to mount the drum backwards and run the engine enough to rotate it while using an angle grinder to shave it down.
Rut

I love this way of thinking ! I never thought of this but it would be a nice way to de-glaze the drums as well. No ?

 

[Jim_Gruber]

4 bolts hold the backing plates on. Now that you’ve learned about everything else back there. Yes much easier on the bench. Use new metal locknuts to reassemble.

 

[mikeamondo]

Double checked today, after watching a video on the use of the tool... no way to make it work in place as designed. Tomorrow I'll try a couple jury rigging ideas I have... might try to 'backyard engineer' something using a c-clamp to squeeze it on instead of shoving it on. If that doesn't work I'll try and remove the back plate... everything else has come off pretty easy. The passenger side axle nut was finger tight... no exaggeration. Just turned it off after I took off the lock ring. Hopefully the back plate will come off easy as well....

 

[Jim_Gruber]

After a few minutes of frustration and bad words the backing plate will come off I predict. BTDT. 8 7:16 fine locking metal nuts from your local Ace or True Value and néw lock washers will complete the reinstallation of the backing plate and someone please post a picture of LH and RH Rear Brake assemblies. That will be the next problem we’ll need to help solve.

I found it much easier to reinstall brake shoes and springs without the hub and axle in place. There is room to work. Brake shoes get installed one going one way and the rear shoe turned opposite way. You’ll need to look at pics for spring and brake shoe orientation. Two shoes and two springs are hooked together, top front slide into slave first, rear shoe next, and with help of big screwdriver pry the bottom front in place and then the rear with a satisfying snap. They should move freely but tight.

While at hardware store don’t forget the 4 big nuts that will fit over lug nuts as spacers so you can use lug nuts to pull the axle and hubs tightly together then install the set screw. That’s the key so it does not leak. Good luck.

PS once you get the one side done and the second side is giving you fits, look at the shoe orientation, the shoes have the same orientation but reversed from side to side.

 

[mikeamondo]

Hey Jim... that was a great post! Thanks! I had a good day today. Got the E clips on with some effort, but not too bad. I was wondering.. do the smaller bore cylinders take up less space in the drum, thus providing more clearance for the back of the studs to pass by? The car had 7/8 inch bores on it, so that's what I bought. But there was clear evidence of the studs impacting the cylinders, both the rubber and the metal a bit. That was on both sides. I've installed my new ones, but I ground down a grove in the metal and the rubber of the cylinder for the studs to pass by. I'm just thinking the previous owner may have installed the wrong ones, and I've just repeated the mistake. The clearance is there, now, tho, so I think they should work.

I've installed the shoes on the passenger side, just need to finish the driver's, change out the hoses, bleed the whole thing and see what happens... might be able to get back into it tomorrow or Monday. One thing I learned today... you need to re-hook up the e brake bracket because it helps pull the rear shoe into place. Without it, it twists outward and doesn't sit right.

I was able to get everything in place, by the way, without removing the backing plate. Also, I discovered that using a C-Clamp to hold the cylinder in place against the back plate allowed me to pry on the e clip using 2 screwdrivers at the same time... eventually I managed to muscle it into place. The C clamp didn't work alone... I used a straight metal bracket as a lever between the hub and the cylinder, and then the C Clamp squeezed on the bracket and the back plate. This allowed the clamp to be positioned up and out of the way of the brake line input.

I know most of you guys have all this worked out, but I thought I'd type it up in case any other newbies stumble across this thread....
Thanks for the help! I'll keep you posted!

 

[mikeamondo]

Finally done! Got everything bled out today... and took him for a short drive. Felt great to finally drive him! The brakes work, but feel weak... not sure how much stopping power old drums should have... I'm wondering if the fronts may not be doing what they should... or perhaps my new rears need adjusted.
Secondly... and perhaps worse.... when I turned sharply into a parking lot, there was a scraping in the back.... if you say 'shick shick shick' really fast you get close to the sound. It's only in a fairly hard turn. Both times it was a left turn.. I'll need a longer test drive in the next day or so to see how and when it occurs, but in the mean time.... any ideas?

Thanks! Especially for all the help over the past several weeks! It runs, it stops.... back on the road!
Mike

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Drums probably need to be turned down a touch more.