TR2/3/3A Automatic Transmission for TR3A

[sebarnes]

Hello All, I am rebuilding a 59 or 60 TR3A for my fiance Julie. I need to install an automatic transmission for her. I want to stay with the rebulit original engine that came with the car. Anyone have any success morphing any particular tranny into this drivetrain? Anything I should steer clear of? I am completely clueless to this. Any and all help/opinions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Scott

 

[Andrew Mace]

Triumph experimented with a Borg-Warner 35 back when the TR3 was still current. Later, the six-cylinder Triumph 2000 sedan had essentially the same gearbox, and at least a couple of folks have converted TR6s and six-cylinder Vitesses with those. Keep in mind that the 2000 sedan, in manual gearbox form, used a slightly modified TR gearbox...and you can see where I'm going with this, I hope.

There likely are much better and more modern autoboxes that could be adapted. For example, there's the mid-1980s Volvo four-speed automatic, which I think was a Borg-Warner 65. I don't know much about the physical size of that one, but the older three-speed 35 was a much wider box than the original TR manual gearbox; that's just one thing to keep in mind while ignoring all the ancillaries needed to make an autobox work. Realistically, an engine/autobox unit swap might be easier to pull off?

 

[tomshobby]

Didn't the MGC have a a Borg-Warner 45?

 

[Vaark01]

Scott,

Check with Mike Gassman at Gassman Automotive in Waynesboro, VA. He restored a TR-3 and put in an auto transmission.

Paul

 

[Geo Hahn]

You are a very nice guy. My girlfriend had to learn to use a stick if she wanted to drive my TRs. She did and does (for the past 35 years).

 

[Don Elliott]

The President of TRA, John Warfield, put a S-T automatic transmission into his red TR3A after he became paralysed.

https://www.triumphregister.com/TRAContacts.html

He sold it to another Maryland member (Leon) who I believe removed it. It may still be available.

Also Steve Hedke put one from a S-T sedan into the TR6 of his dad when he had a stroke and could not make his clutch leg work.

Steve is at British Pacific Rover in Valencia, California.

https://www.britishpacific.com/BPSite/AboutBritishPacific.html

If you call them, say hello from me.

 

[deadair]

Ok, I'll be the first to say it: It's blasphemous to put an automatic transmission in a TR-3! Shame on you for even THINKING of such a thing.

(On the other hand, I have to admit it presents an interesting technical challenge.)

 

[Twosheds]

The President of TRA, John Warfield, put a S-T automatic transmission into his red TR3A after he became paralysed.

Jim Booth, now with Treasured Motorcars, did the installation. It was a Borg-Warner from a Triumph 2000 sedan. There's something different about the MGC version that needs modified, but I forget what it is. Jim knows.

I don't remember what Leon did with the Borg-Warner, but I can find out. He sold the car with a manual in it.

 

[tomshobby]

I once was considering the possibility of an automatic and Steve Hedke was gracious enough to share his experience.

The following is his response.

Here's the essence of it, Tom:

The conversion was done with a Triumph 2000 sedan parts car. The 2.0 liter 6 is mounted in the car at an angle, canted I believe 15 degrees to the right. There is a steel adapter plate that bolts to the back of the engine where the bellhousing attaches. This mounts the Borg Warner A35 tranny flat in the car while the engine is tilted. This is a key piece.
The oil pan for the automatic is much wider than the bottom of the manual transmission, and the chassis is not designed to accommodate it. When you bolt that steel plate to the TR6 block, it cants the transmission at a 15 degree angle. This is necessary to clear the frame rails.

You'll also need to take the flex plate off the 2000 (where the converter bolts to) and fabricate a spacer for the back of the crankshaft so that the ring gear aligns with the starter. As I recall it's just under 1". The 2000 automatic crankshaft has this extension cast into it.

The next step is to fabricate the rear mount. Since the trans is sitting at an angle this is a bit tricky. I did it with a u-bolt right on the tail housing of the trans.

Once that's done you'll need a fiberglass transmission tunnel. The shifter comes from the 2000 donor car, and is mounted to the tunnel itself (that's why you need the plastic one). The side of the tunnel (right I believe) has to be modified to clear the pan, and a door is cut into it to attach the shifter to the trans. We tried hooking up the kickdown cable but that's tricky. We gave up and simply downshifted the trans manually.

The A35 is air cooled so no cooler lines or additional radiator are necessary.

However: since you no longer have compression braking aavailable to slow the car down, you'll need to upgrade the front brakes. I recommend cutting a hole in each side of the front valence with a hole saw to allow air to get on the rotors directly. And use the slotted and drilled rotors. This is critical: we smoked the brakes a few times on downhill runs.

The shifting into gear from neutral is hard on the rear diff mounts too. If you haven't reinforced those studs you'll need to when fitting the auto trans.

The car drove fine with the auto box, it was just about as fast. But it does eat gas.

The car now belongs to a collector of TR6's in Santa Barbara. But you can see it on most Moss catalogs and ads: it's the french blue with hardtop sitting on a hillside. The only external difference was that we removed the air dam for more air flow.

Steve Hedke

 

[Andrew Mace]

Ok, I'll be the first to say it: It's blasphemous to put an automatic transmission in a TR-3! Shame on you for even THINKING of such a thing....

Maybe, but then many could say the same about: Toyota five-speed, rack and pinion steering, a Rover V-8 or BMW inline six, tuck-and-roll Naugahyde upholstery from Tony Nancy, pearlescent paint from a late-model Cadillac.... :laugh:

I tend to be pretty much a purist with my Triumphs, but I can't fault anyone else for their individual tastes, and I certainly can't fault efforts to make the car more driveable for its owner whether those efforts are out of preference or necessity.

In this specific example of an automatic in a TR3, Triumph probably would have gone ahead and done it if they'd seen a profitable market for it. But they didn't see such a market. From what I've read, B[L]MC tried both automatic MGBs and MGCs and didn't really succeed with either. But that was all many, many years ago. Nowadays, there's no question you'd have automatics in a sports car. Times change!

 

[deadair]

I was sort of half kidding. But I mean "half" because the preservationist in me says don't mess with an historical relic and the sports car enthusiast says any true sports car must have a manual transmission. (I remember wincing when I first saw an XKE fitted with an automatic and that was from the factory.)

However, the populist in me says that people have different needs and preferences and the technologist says that there are plenty of such "relics" already out there, so let's see someone do something radical to their TR3.

That latter half will be following this project with a great deal of interest while the former half winces.

 

[Andrew Mace]

In other words, we pretty much agree! :thumbsup:

Sure, in my ideal world, all the TR2s that left Coventry in Olive Yellow or Geranium or Ice Blue would still be that color, parked near all the Coffee or Targo Purple Heralds and Leaf Green Bugeye Sprites. On the other hand, none of them would be wearing OEM-style Dunlop Gold Seals, except for display.

I won't even talk about restoring all the Fiat Topolinos and Thames Panel Vans back to their original powerplants... (sorry for obscure early 1960s drag-racing reference, courtesy of a partly misspent youth reading <span style="font-style: italic">Rod & Custom</span> almost as faithfully as <span style="font-style: italic">Road & Track</span>)!

 

[sebarnes]

My ambition and desire in this project are way ahead of my skills and experience. I bring alot of enthusiasm and clean tools to the party but really dont have a clue as to where or how I'm going to start. I really didnt think this would be as easy as a "go to your boneyard and drag home this Datsun transmission, swap out some bolts, shim the heck out of it, and drive in bliss". I really do appreciate the responses and leads, Thank You all very much. Please dont stop commenting on this topic, I need as much input as you care to offer. I cant see why I cant make this work, just need help putting the game plan together.

The preservationist in me has had some qualms about veering away from factory or stock. But if it keeps Julie happy, we is all happy! Thanks All, Scott

 

[aeronca65t]

In all honesty, it would be easier, cheaper and more time-efficient to just buy an old auto-trans Miata and keep the TR as it is.
Plenty of them around for under $5000. I doubt you could to the entire TR swap for that.
Plus, you'd end with two nice little cars.

Just my tuppence.

 

[Don Elliott]

I have a friend who just bought a very nice BRG "runner" TR4 with no body rust for $4000,00. It is very original but some previous owner took out the engine, gearbox, carbs etc. and fitted a GM Celebrity 4-cylinder engine with automatic transmission. With the engine compartment closed the only sign of the change is the shifter for the automatic.

This is another option for you to consider.

 

[martx-5]

I thought the "Celebrity" was front wheel drive!

 

[deadair]

In all honesty, it would be easier, cheaper and more time-efficient to just buy an old auto-trans Miata and keep the TR as it is.
Plenty of them around for under $5000. I doubt you could to the entire TR swap for that.
Plus, you'd end with two nice little cars.

Just my tuppence.

My ex couldn't drive a stick either, but REALLY wanted a sports car like my Boxster S. Since I just couldn't bring myself to buy her a Porsche or similar car with an automatic (cleverly marketed as a "triptronic"), I ended up buying an M3 with an SMG, which was the perfect compromise: she got a "manual" transmission without having to worry about working the clutch peddle. That was one great car and I wish I could have kept it after the divorce.

I've never driven one, but I've heard that the Miata is as close as you can get to a traditional British sports car in a modern package. Good advice there.