Will the wrong engine oil damage the engine

[beachbumbarry]

I was at a British car club meeting and a person told me that if you run regular car oil in a british car the engine could seze. He suggested Redline engine oil or a basic diesel oil. He said that regular brand name oils don't have the cushioning elements in them, there removed for polution reasions. My engine is a fresh rebuild and I don't want to take any chances when I fire it up.
Thank you for imput. BarryE

 

[Steve_S]

You do NOT want to switch from standard oil to synthetic. You could ruin your engine. Synthetics tend to loosen deposits in the engine left behind by standard oils. These chunks of debris can do a lot of damage.

In a new engine, you can run synthetic if you like. There are widely varying reports on using synthetic. Some love it and others hate it. If you have any leaks, they will likely be worse with synthetic.

The "cushioning" your friend was talking about is the current ZDDP issue. New emissions laws are forcing a reduction in ZDDP content in motor oils. ZDDP is a key ingredient in protecting older engines with flat lifters. The debate still rages on with many people saying this is only an issue on new engines, and that broken-in engines will not be harmed by reduced levels of ZDDP.

Some people are adding STP or other additives which raise the ZDDP content. Until more conclusive studies are complete, I have switched from my usual Castrol GTX to Super Speed Sport oil which is specifically designed for older engines like ours. you can also run synthetic blends if you really want to switch to synthetic, but I'm still uneasy about it.

 

[swift6]

Or... you could use your choice of 'Racing' specific oils available through your local chain auto parts store. They still contain the full amount of ZDDP. Castrol has stated that their 15W40 and 20W50 oils still contain enough ZDDP for Stock engines with stock profile camshafts. Increase the lift on the camshaft and the resulting pressure increase and increased wear could result.

Saying that your engine would seize is a bit alarmist.

 

[Steve_S]

Just FYI, all the racing oils I've seen in retail stores are synthetic.

I also read somewhere that Castrol states reduced ZDDP levels are not a problem because of other compounds in the oil that make up for it. I don't know if it's true, but it was on the internet so it must be, right? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

[PAUL161]

My 72 has a totally rebuilt engine in it with all new bearings a new cam, new lifters that now has 700 miles on it. I use Havoline 20/50 along with STP. I have no problems with my engine. Also, an extremely high detergent oil, as for diesel engines, will not hurt a newly rebuilt engine that has been thoroughly cleaned. It will just keep it sparkley clean inside. It will possibly damage an older engine that has been gummed up a bit as it will clean the engine and drop everything in the bottom of the pan, (depending just how much junk is in there), for the pump to suck up against the screen. No oil pressure, no bearings! PJ

 

[Hap Waldrop]

I was at a British car club meeting and a person told me that if you run regular car oil in a british car the engine could seze. He suggested Redline engine oil or a basic diesel oil.

OMG, this is like one of those whisper that get sent around a classroom and by the time it gets to the other end of the room, it been blown out of wack, bigtime.

Barry, if you build a new engine, you should break it in on a zinc enriched oil. I build LBC motors for a living and use Valvoline VR1 20/50 for break in, I used to use Rotella 15/40, but found out VR1 had more zinc, and had used in the race engines for years, and it's a dino based oil, not synthetic, most snythetics have no zinc in them. If you're not breaking in a motor, don't worry about zinc, if you are or worrying about using a Zinc oil, go to any discount parts store within 50 miles of a racetrack and you should be able to find the VR1.

 

[jlaird]

Hap strikes again, way to go bud.

 

[shorn]

Adding 4 onces of GM EOS Assembly Lubricant at every oil change should provide the necessary lubricant to protect the cam even with todays ZDDP deficient oils. A 16 on. bottle of GM EOS sells for about $8.00.

 

[Keoke]

Nope Steve, Hap just told you Valvoline 20/50 VR1 is not a synthetic, Similarly Castorol GTX 20/50 is also an acceptable oil. Either can be purchased at Pep-Boys, But Autozone is cheaper. --Keoke- /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/yesnod.gif

 

[Steve_S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] Nope Steve, Hap just told you Valvoline 20/50 VR1 is not a synthetic[/QUOTE]
Hap posted after me. Looking VR1 up, it appears to come in both synthetic blend and non-synthetic.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Keoke, GTX is not a suitable zinc oil, forget Castrol, those days are over. Steve, don't worry about finding anyhting in VR1 except dino, you have to have special documentation to buy the true Valvoline racing synthetics. Dino VR1 is extremely popular with the circle track crowd in the straight 50 weight and the 20/50, it's as common as about anything you could find, heck if they run out of it around here, riots would start.

This whole flat tappet engine break in with zinc oils has been around for a while, nascar guys told me about 5 years ago, but the LBC community stumbled across it last year, and I never saw anyhting get so twisted around in my life. I plan on speaking on this subject at my next LBC club meeting, more about the myths than anything else.

So here we go again, so people pay attention, this is only a issue for breaking in a new motor with a solid lifter cam, which is what we have, after break in , use whatever the heck you want. Oh and unless you've been hiding under a rock for the last 20 years, make sure you get a properly hardend cam (nitrited) or billet cam and good hardened lifters to match the cam.

 

[swift6]

The reduction in ZDDP coincided with a lot of manufacturers of solid lifters closing down or consolidating which meant higher prices for good solid lifters. To counter the higher prices, many vendors started buying solid lifters from Asia. The market was practically flooded with these less expensive lifters. The downside to these less expensive lifters was that they were also softer than they were supposed to be.

This all happened right around the year 2000-01. It hit solid lifter V8 people pretty hard (larger market) but there also grumblings on 6-Pack as it seemed that the supply of solid lifters for TR6's were pretty much junk. Several TR6's with new engines were suffering cam failure from the lifters disintegrating.

My performance engine had a set of these bad lifters but I was able to catch it before my cam was damaged. I can provide photos of the lifters if anyone wants to see them. I have one more 'paranoia' check to make on my TR6 engine until I am satisfied with the current lifters. Just have to pull the head again in order to perform it. Whee!

So was it the low quality lifters, or was it the reduction of ZDDP or was it a combination of the two? Most vendors have tried to purge their stock of soft lifters but its probably still a good idea to use oils that still contain proper amounts of ZDDP or use an additive as earlier suggested. Better to be safe than sorry.

 

[sparkydave]

Keoke, GTX is not a suitable zinc oil, forget Castrol, those days are over.

Having followed many of the threads on ZDDP deficiencies, the prevailing fact that Castrol backed up was that Castrol GTX 20W-50 was still fine for stock cams. When did that change?

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Keoke, GTX is not a suitable zinc oil, forget Castrol, those days are over.

Having followed many of the threads on ZDDP deficiencies, the prevailing fact that Castrol backed up was that Castrol GTX 20W-50 was still fine for stock cams. When did that change?

When they quit putting zinc in it. Please define a stock cam in a 40 year+ motor. If you've got an old stock motor that is still together and undisturbed from the factory with it's factory cam and matching lifter set, if so, this doesn't concern you anyway, it's for people rebuilding engine and breaking in new cams and lifters.

As for cams and lifters for A and B series engines, I use only one combination APT cams and APT lifters for my street engines, both items are in 57-60 rockwell c range, but this nothing new for me, I've been praticing this for years and years. Just so you know I'm not not just blowing smoke, I'm on my 4th MGB street engine this year alone. Give or take we build 12-15 MG motors a year.

 

[sparkydave]

Thanks for clearing that up, Hap. Yes, other than replacing the dinged oil pan, mine has never been torn down and has 30,000 miles on it. I guess with all the hype over ZDDP being taken out, I just want to make sure I'm still good what I've been using (Castrol GTX 20W-50). If I ever have to work on the lifters, I'll be sure to keep this in mind.

 

[Steve_S]

Castrol hasn't stopped putting zinc in their oil, they just reduced it to below what is considered a safe level for breaking in a new flat tappet engine. But still, after 20 years of being faithful I have moved on to DA oil.

 

[Keoke]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] Nope Steve, Hap just told you Valvoline 20/50 VR1 is not a synthetic

Hap posted after me. Looking VR1 up, it appears to come in both synthetic blend and non-synthetic. [/QUOTE]


Just get the non-synthetic and you will be ok. Further a "synthetic blend" is not a pure synthetic oil.---Keoke- /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/nonod.gif

 

[Steve_S]

Exactly. Synthetic blend is a mixture of both.

I was using Valvoline Durablend for a while which as the name suggests also a blend, and is a good oil. Now I use DA Super Speed Sport which is also a blend and is rich in what our old engines need.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

I throw this in and then quit. There's nothing wrong with synthetics, synthetics are great oil, really the best of all oils. There's a short list of true synthetics you easly buy, Mobil One being one of them. NEVER, EVER, NEVER break a motor in on a snythetic oil or synthetic blend oil, because now you will open up another whole set of nightmares with rings not seating.

 

[jlaird]

Ahhh, wondered about that.