Post for a new B owner-Car stalling, not starting

[Dave Richards]

So, my son buys a '78 'B' (yes, I'm jealous)and picks it up this morning.

It's been running daily, or at least wee(a)kly.

He starts it and starts to drive it home...five miles, or so, it backfires twice and stalls...won't re-start. (Tows it 10 hours home.) Dad, the car won't start! Turn it over, sure enough, car won't start.

Dad checks for fuel flow... disconnects fuel line and turns key, accidentally turns key to "start" and car fires right up! Dad reconnects fuel line, touches the key and vroom, car starts instantly and runs at high idle. uummm.

Car runs for five minutes, or so and starts to die, touch gas, and engine dies. Turn key, not starting...

So what's up?

Car has a weird ignition "module" (aftermarket, according to PO) All of my experience is with 1967-1969 MGBs, no fancy ignition stuff there.

Can the choke system on the Stromberg carb cause this sort of thing? (stalling when it gets warm)

 

[kennypinkerton]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

check the fuel pickup tube in the tank. Some gas is probably varnished over the plastic filter on the end of it. Mine did exacly the same thing when I first got it running. Go about 1 mile and then it would quit. After sitting a few minutes with the key in the on position, it would crank right up and go another mile. When I took the pickup tube/sending unit out, I couldn't even blow air through it. I used the end of a small screwdriver and an exacto knife to re-open the little slots.

 

[glemon]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Definitely the most likeley cause, have had the problem myself and know many others who have as well.

IN addition to old gas gunk can also be sediment from a rusty fuel tank clogging the pick up or somewhere along the line.

 

[Kensai]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Be sure to check the tank well before you start driving it. Mine had a layer of old gas that had turned into a sticky substance that clogged my valves after a few miles.

 

[Dave Richards]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

OK, will do. Thank you. Will post back and also post photos and have son create a user name here.

 

[Dave Richards]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Well...

Took the intake tube out of the tank, it was very clean. Disconnected fuel line at carb, and got a steady flow.

Hooked coil directly to one cylinder, engine hit.

So, we have fuel and we have spark, or do we?

Put things back together and found a black box on the fender wall, it's a "piranha ignition system" jiggled the box around while we tried to start it and car starts! Only to end a minute later with a backfire from the exhaust.

What's a piranha ignition system? My experience is with '67-69 B's, not this.

We've looked at Moss catalog, external amplifier on the distributor? This is new to me, and at only $400??? What the heck?

Is this thing preventing the car from running?

 

[kennypinkerton]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Not sure about that one. Does it still have the opus electronic ignition? My car has a standard 25D4 distributor installed by the PO. I'll be adding a pertronix to that soon.

 

[Dave Richards]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Now that I know what an opus ignition is, yes, it's still there. Vacuum line is not present. Six wires from black box spliced in at various locations.

Is the 25D4 an earlier distributor, was that done to get away from the fancy "amplifier"?

 

[kennypinkerton]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Yes, and yes. More simplified 1 wire hookup. Just like the older MGB's. Get one from Tony, or whoever you get used parts from. Not sure about the difference in advance curves aver the years, but just about any old MGB points distributor will work. Opus sucks, and is probably the problem here.

 

[Dave Richards]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Plainly said! What a mess under the hood. Google leads me to find piranha ignition system was made in UK, bought out and bought out again!

 

[steved033]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

I can chime in here...I had a pirhanna connected to the stock distributor. I think it was an aftermarket optical pickup of some sort, kind of like a pertronix. Mine was running the car just fine when I removed it. could be a bad solder joint. I can't remember what condition mine is in...I could send it if there's no broken wires.

get a 25D disty, and teach your son to keep the points lubed and set.

I have a '79, backdated to about '71. twin SU's, and 25D. As long as the points are set, it runs like a champ.

sjd

 

[kennypinkerton]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

And, either a points file or an extra set of points and a feelers guage tucked in the dash for emergencies. Best $10 insurance you'll ever buy. Works for the fuelpump (if original) too.

 

[DrEntropy]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

I'll play th' broken record... retrofit an older diz and points. The "black box" units are fine when they work... that one could be getting warm and with thermal expansion a discontinuity may be created. Too much reliance on "solid state" widgets in cars designed with mechanical triggering is unnecessary, IMO.

An emery board and a matchbook can usually get you home in a car with points. A AAA card is the only bail-out option with a smart box iggy.

 

[Dave Richards]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Agreed on all three counts. Points I can understand and teach him the same. I appreciate the input. I'm going to start scrounging for a 25D.

Doc, I couldn't agree more about the emery file and a matchbook cover, those two things saved me once, although nowadays, I can actually afford the extra set of points like Kenny suggests.

Steve, how long have you had the 100-6?

 

[Dave Richards]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

I talked with Tony...he sent most, if not all, of his dizzys to a guy named Jeff in Minnesota!

So I called Jeff, and found his website . We ended up ordering a rebuilt 25D, new coil, wires and plugs.(In for a penny, in for a pound, as they say.)

I'll report back after the swap.

 

[PAUL161]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Also, make sure the tank is vented! A vacuum in the tank will cause a stop in fuel flow! Just another idea.

 

[RickB]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Dave, you will be happy with Jeff's work.
I am a <span style="font-weight: bold">very</span> satisfied customer.

You might want to pull the old unit out in advance of receiving the new one from Jeff. My old one was pretty badly stuck in there. Yours might be easier, but don't count on it.
Take note of the position, or better yet take a picture or two (or ten).

 

[Dave Richards]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Also, make sure the tank is vented! A vacuum in the tank will cause a stop in fuel flow! Just another idea.

Great point, thanks to other replies, this has already been done.

We're going to wait for the dizzy to get here and then sort through the tangle of add-on ignition stuff...

Anything else we should know?

 

[78mgbfan]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Dave,
I run a 78B as my everyday car. With some proper maintenance, it will treat you well.

You probably want to surf over to: https://www.advanceautowire.com
and pick up a copy of the wiring schematics for reference.

Don't know how well the car was maintained but for peace of mind, I would suggest fluid changes all around and a lube job.
You might also want to check the condition of all of the rubber hoses (oil, brake, clutch and emissions) and correct as needed (30 year old cars need a bit of TLC occassionally).

I am one of Jeff's customers and have been very happy with the dizzy I got from him. I use a Pertronix unit simply so I don't have to adjust points (but I keep points, condensor and necessary bits in the boot for backup on road trips).

Pat

 

[Dave Richards]

Re: Post for a new B owner not starting

Dave,
I run a 78B as my everyday car. With some proper maintenance, it will treat you well.

You probably want to surf over to: https://www.advanceautowire.com
and pick up a copy of the wiring schematics for reference.

Don't know how well the car was maintained but for peace of mind, I would suggest fluid changes all around and a lube job.
You might also want to check the condition of all of the rubber hoses (oil, brake, clutch and emissions) and correct as needed (30 year old cars need a bit of TLC occasionally).

I am one of Jeff's customers and have been very happy with the dizzy I got from him. I use a Pertronix unit simply so I don't have to adjust points (but I keep points, condensor and necessary bits in the boot for backup on road trips).

Pat

We discovered advanceautowire a few days ago, awesome schematics, we printed a small one in color and a 24 x 36 in B&W.

Plans for the car, so far:

New dizzy, coil, cap and wires. After they are installed, we'll have to assess how well it runs.

New battery.

Sorting out of the stromburg and choke.

Fluid changes all around. (We're planning on using Redline MT90 in the tranny, I'm happy with it in my Healey, anyone have an opinion?)

Wheels coming off and going to Hendrix for evaluation, truing and new tires.

New hoses for radiator, heater, etc and new belt.

New brake calipers, cylinders, rubber lines, pads, shoes and springs.

Interior is out and being cleaned, new carpet, perhaps. (The bare interior revealed accident repair, which we suspected from the non-original passenger door. It's not professionally done, but is a solid repair.)

New top is already ordered and should be here this week.

Saturday was wash, clay bar, and wax day. My son did all the work, I was pleased with the way the paint looked. However, someone apparently "keyed" the unfortunate PO, including an expletive keyed into the bonnet. We have a good paint guy that should be able to make the car look like new for about $1000.

That's quite a pile of work, but I think that's the minimum that needs to be done to be reliable as a daily driver.