No turn signals-Part 2

[Tinster]

I think I need some diagnostic help with my lack of turn
signals. Remember, all four turns lights went dead while driving. But all four emergency flasher lights worked just fine. Since then:

1. I installed a new blinker can.(old one works fine)
2. I pulled the new turn signal switch and looked for
rust-none observed. Switch probably used less
than 20 times.
3. I cleaned all the spade terminals on the hazzar switch .
4. I installed all new wires from the Power Block into the
dash and into the turn signal switch and into the hazzard
switch.
5. Tested turn signal wires circuit to lights with portable
12V battery. All lights functioned.
6. Measured 12V going INTO the turn signal switch.
7. Measured 12V going INTO the hazzard switch

After all that I have exactly the same condition. Emergency flashers work perfectly when I flip the switch.

The turn signal blinker can makes a blinking noise when I
move the signal switch arm up or down, but all four turn
signal lights remain dead.

The turn signal switch and hazzard switch are both brand new.

I'm stumped. Any ideas?

thanks,

dale

I am really puzzled with the blinker can blinking but no lights blinking. The blinker can must be completing a circuit somehow or it would not blink-is this correct??

But my 4 ways work properly.

 

[Andrew Mace]

I still wonder if there's something amiss with the hazard switch itself....

 

[DNK]

Dale - your hazard switch is just a metal rocker switch correct? Have you called Dan and asked him?

Why this?-
4. I installed all new wires from the Power Block into the
dash and into the turn signal switch and into the hazard
switch.

6. Measured 12V going INTO the turn signal switch.
7. Measured 12V going INTO the hazard switch
How much after the hazard and turn signal?

 

[TR3driver]

6. Measured 12V going INTO the turn signal switch.

Try repeating that measurement with everything connected and the switch set for the turn signals to operate. Then check the ouput from the switch for that side (Green/Red for left or Green/White for right).

My guess is that you'll find the voltage goes away under load, indicating a bad connection or contact farther back up the line. Most likely suspect IMO (and as Andy says) is the hazard switch. But I strongly recommend systematic testing rather than blind replacement of components, so do the tests.

Probably, the bad connection/contact is passing enough current for the flasher to operate, but not enough to light the turn bulbs. This would explain both why you can hear the flasher operate, and why you find 12v with no load connected.

 

[Tinster]

I now have turn signals again!

I got to thinking after I rewired the turn and hazzard
switches from the Power Block; that I did not install a
new ground wire to the turn signal unit. I didn't see one
so I'm guessing the ground wire to the turn signal unit
fell off during a pothole adventure. That would explain
the instant loss of all four turn lights.

So I grounded the turn signal unit and installed new fuses,
just to be sure and WAHLAH!!! Let there be turn signal
LIGHTs.

Yes, I always use marine electical grease on all my connections.

Thanks for the advice. It still seems odd about the blinker
can blinking with no ground wire on the turn signal switch.

 

[TR3driver]

Yeah, it does. Especially since neither the switch nor the blinker can requires a ground. The only grounds in the entire turn signal circuit are at the bulbs & battery.

I still think you had a bad connection/contact somewhere that touched down as a result of your fiddling around.

 

[DNK]

dale- Where did you ground the turn signal unit? I don't recall any ground for there. The switch should be grounded thru the column shouldn't it?

 

[BOXoROCKS]

some times the hazard switch internals do not disconnect when you shut off the hazard switch. Same thing on a MGB. You have to snap the switch on/off a bunch of times to get the contacts to co-operate. WD40 the switch inside.

 

[Tinster]

Randall:

I have always had grounding problems with this car.
I had to install grounding blocks (7)throughout the car
when I installed Dan Master's Power Block wire harness.
Every light bulb, every gauge and everything electrical
has it's own separate ground wire. I have a ton of ground
wires behind the dash. All my ground wires eventually
terminate on the engine block.

I started my diagnostics at the individual light bulbs and
worked backwards to the switches. Then from the switches to
the Power Block. All the lights functioned under portable
battery load up to the turn signal switch.

It was then that I ripped out the wires from the switches to
the Power Block and installed new ones. Still no lights.

Only after I installed a ground wire to the install screw
of the turn signal unit body did my turn signals function.
I never did discover why the signals stopped dead when I hit
a pothole. My signal switch is now grounded and routed to
the engine block. All lights function as they should.

[/img]

 

[LastDeadLast]

I have always had grounding problems with this car.
I had to install grounding blocks (7)throughout the car
when I installed Dan Master's Power Block wire harness.
Every light bulb, every gauge and everything electrical
has it's own separate ground wire. I have a ton of ground
wires behind the dash. All my ground wires eventually
terminate on the engine block.

Ummmm,...OK. That's probably making the electical system about 10 times more complicated than it needs to be. You probably should consolidate those grounds eventually in order to make the debuggin process a little simpler.

 

[RonMacPherson]

Boy, that makes me wonder, a lot, about the Masters power block set up.

Ideally, you only need a few, repeat few grounds, as each area, region, or locale of the car that uses the same circuitry will join to a common ground. Makes troubleshooting sooooo much easier.

Didn't you say, that you had the luxury of Dan Masters coming down and helping you with the install, or is that just my imaginative memory.

 

[DNK]

Ron, I t was Mike,Dan's son, who helped him. Dan's kit doesn't need that many grounds,but as everybody knows, the grounds on a TR are a bug-a-boo. I have even more ground connection than Dale,but my set up is a little more complicated than his.i Have 4 of these in my set up

1-In the boot with both light fixtures,fuel pump and then a lead forward.
2-behind the dash with a total of 6 connections there with a lead forward
3-At the front with all those light connections that are suppose to plug into that 1 little spade terminal on the body plus my electric fan and the horn connection.
4- the last one on the drivers fender where the relays usually sit I have all the ground blocks tied to this and the battery and the power block.
It might be over kill but I shouldn't have ground problems

 

[TR3driver]

Boy, that makes me wonder, a lot, about the Masters power block set up.

As original, Dan's harness doesn't include much in the way of ground wires. Especially for things that don't need to be grounded, like turn signal flashers and switches.

Note how the only grounds in this diagram are on the bulbs ...

 

[Guest]

I found recently that I had no left (or was it right?) turn signal, and kept burning a fuse, to boot. Turns (pun intended) out that my OE turn signal had rubbed a wire bare and kept shorting out every time I used it. Took taking the thing apart to find the little bitty rub spot. Changing to a new turn signal apparatus fixed that.

 

[Tinster]

DNK:

I have 7 grounding blocks similar to yours.
Did you terminate all your blocks to the engine
block like I did?? Did you solder ground wires
to all your light bulb holders? I had to in order
to get the lights operational.

I installed grounding blocks:

1. Drivers front wheel arch
2. Passengers front wheel arch
3. Drivers firewall bottom
4. Passengers firewall bottom
5. Inside dash area
6. Drivers rear lights area
7. Passengers rear lights area

Everything now functions except the horns. I have
not yet been able to figure out the horn hub wiring.

regards,

d

 

[DNK]

The engine is only grounded by the battery ground strap.
The horn needs a grounding strap at the upper steering coupler(see below) which is then grounded to the rack. I didn't terminate mine at the rack I grounded that wire @ the front with the headlight grounds.

 

[TR3driver]

If memory serves, the rack is supposed to have a ground wire as well, attached to the plug you remove to lube the rack (where it's frequently forgotten).

The result on a car without a horn relay is horn current flowing through the bearings in the rack, which doesn't seem like a good idea to me. IMO adding a relay is a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[DNK]

If memory serves, the rack is supposed to have a ground wire as well, attached to the plug you remove to lube the rack (where it's frequently forgotten).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] The horn needs a grounding strap at the upper steering coupler(see below) which is <span style='font-size: 26pt'>then grounded to the rack</span>.[/QUOTE]

Just funning /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banana.gif

 

[TR4nut]

Slight digression on this topic, but I agree with Randall on adding a relay to the horn circuit. I added one to my 69 TR6 and it helped tremendously. Having the horn current go through the steering column and rack is problematic and I think it's the same issue I 'currently' have on my TR4.

Regards
Randy

 

[TR3driver]

Apologies if I misunderstood, DNK. I thought you said the steering coupler was grounded to the rack (which I agree with), while my point was that the rack itself must be grounded to the body.