New Project...5 Speed Conversion!

[jhorton3]

It finally happened! After many years I finally acquired a Datsun 210 5 speed. I'm really excited about this. I'm planning on going with the Rivergate kit. I've got some questions for those of you who have performed this conversion.

1. With the newly manufactured adapter plates is it still necessary to drill a hole for the Lucas starter? Going with a gear reduction starter is not an option.

2. Which is better to fit, the original ribcase clutch slave cylinder, original Datsun slave, or Rivergate's billet slave?

3. For those that had the shifter modified did you have it cut to the length of the original MG shifter, or cut shorter? I'm wondering if it could be cut to about half what the MG shifter is and still shift well (kind of a short shift kit).

4. The motor has around 4K on it. Are there any parts I should go ahead and replace while the engine is out?

5. With an engine hoist (cherry picker) and leveler what's the best way to install the engine and transmission as a unit? Any tips or tricks?

Hopefully I can order the conversion kit end of this week. If I can do this in a two day period I may try to fit it next Friday/Saturday.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Answers below

1. With the newly manufactured adapter plates is it still necessary to drill a hole for the Lucas starter? Going with a gear reduction starter is not an option.

The hole is already in the rear engine palte for the starter, you can use the GR starer with no issues.

2. Which is better to fit, the original ribcase clutch slave cylinder, original Datsun slave, or Rivergate's billet slave?

From what I can tell the aftermarket billet SC, it will be on the opposite side of where the stock SC was, meaning now on the driver's side

3. For those that had the shifter modified did you have it cut to the length of the original MG shifter, or cut shorter? I'm wondering if it could be cut to about half what the MG shifter is and still shift well (kind of a short shift kit).

He mods the shifter to come in the correct location

4. The motor has around 4K on it. Are there any parts I should go ahead and replace while the engine is out?

Well you'll be repacing the clutch disc, thats about it really.

5. With an engine hoist (cherry picker) and leveler what's the best way to install the engine and transmission as a unit? Any tips or tricks?

I pulled these engines about a million times, at the race track we do engine swaps in about 1 hour or less, so lets say I done it a time or two , some will probably not agree with my location on the chainm ountings but I done it many times, since you have alternator, if is installed around the bracket there with the alt in place, if the alt. is not installed use alt. bracket holes (5/16 fine), and then I use the rear exhaust studs on the head , I remove engine and tranny together.

Sidenote, I installed Will's latest rear palte with his newer seal design, it just backs up the scroll, and is a pretty good deal, I recommend it.

 

[jhorton3]

Thanks for the information Hap. I should have clarified what I thought needed cutting. I'm guessing the transmission housing still needs to have a hole cut to allow the bendex clearance?

I've pulled the motor and ribcase transmission before and put it back in. In reading a few posts I can tell it's going to be a challenge to put the conversion assembly in, especially with the close tolerance of the heater shelf.

 

[JPSmit]

you might want to check the motor mounts while engine is out

 

[texas_bugeye]

Way to go!
Your going to kick your self for not doing it sooner.This upgrade is by far the best you will ever do to enjoy driving your car.
Are you getting the right angle speedo cable drive adapter? I would and the cable.
Attach the Speedo cable before you put the unit back in the car, this will save your knuckles for getting the rear tranny mount in place.
Get an extra set of hands to help get the angle right to get the rear tranny mount in it is the only part of this project that i had any problems with.Not really a problem its just a tight fit and you need just the rite angle.
And dont forget the bolts on the sides of the tunnel..
Great time to do a little house keeping under the hood and clean up the engine.
Have fun ! Its a saturday project driving on sunday!

 

[Colin8]

I have the Rivergate conversion, purchased 10 years ago, and only now in process of installing on a 1098 engine. I purchased a 1275 kit in error, so the clutch became an issue.

Regarding the clutch slave... I'm not sure which came with my kit but think it's a Datsun part. The Datsun clutch slave is mounted on the drivers side. If you moved the stock slave to that side, it would have the bleed nipple facing down making it hard to bleed the system. I suspect the Datsun parts are getting scarce so perhaps that's why Rivergate is building a billet version.

Morriservice sells a similar kit that uses the original rib-case clutch slave. They make a machined cradle that allows the cylinder to mount flipped around so the bleed nipple is up. Morrisservice's kit is similar to Rivergate's except they use the Datsun clutch disc and cover. Rivergate uses the 1275 clutch parts. both companies are happy to help on the phone. I suggest you call with all your questions.

One, or perhaps both of the companies backplate changed to allow easier installation of the starter by rotating the starter hole to better line up with the transmission. I've only read about this - I have the earlier kit and my transmission bell housing had to be cut. I'm also using a modern starter so less cutting is required.

For a 1275, the Rivergate kit offers the advantage of using the existing clutch, but you have to cut the Datsun throwout bearing hub and fork to allow clearance for the clutch cover. The Morriservice kit requires that you send them your flywheel so it can be drilled and pinned to fit the Datsun clutch cover. Then you use the stock Datsun throwout bearing arrangement without modification. So, it's difficult to say which is a better way to go.

The rib-case shift lever is located to the right of the transmission centerline approximately 1 inch. The Datsun shift lever is on the centerline of the transmission. It appears that what is typically done is to cut the Datsun lever off about 1 inch long and weld the stock shift lever to the right side of it. I'm haven't installed my engine and gearbox yet, so will figure that out when it's time.

From everyone's comments, this modification is the number one best thing for these cars. I've rebuilt the ribcase before due to chipped first/reverse gears and it's bad again now. So I'm anxious to see how the Datsun gearbox works but it will be some time as I've got lots more to do with the engine before it's ready to reinstall.

--Colin--

 

[nomad]

I believe you may want to mail Bill M in Washington. The Datsun starter and no holes cut in bellhousing I believe is possible. I think he works with Paul A at Morris Service with his kit. Check with him anyway.
KA.

 

[texas_bugeye]

<span style="color: #3366FF">1. With the newly manufactured adapter plates is it still necessary to drill a hole for the Lucas starter? Going with a gear reduction starter is not an option.</span>

If your using the lucas starter you do need to put the hole in the bell housing for the bendex of the starter.
There is a starter that just bolts up and is a lot cheaper than what is sold in the catalogs. some one here will know which one it is I think it's from an Izuzu. Also check in the wiki I think theres some reference to it there.

 

[Pythias]

MorrisService also has a rear seal kit.

NFI

 

[BuggerAll]

Don't forget to cut off the rib that runs longitudinally along the top of the Datsun bellhousing.
For my install, with the 'Ferrari shift' (i.e., R and 1st on the same shift plane) I found that the order of installation which worked best was 1/ install rear mount 2/ install trans & support 3/ install engine. Piece of cake -

 

[jhorton3]

Got home late this evening and spent about 10-15 minutes looking the "new" transmission over. Looks to be in decent shape. There are two electrical plugs on the right side of the gearbox. I suspect one is a reverse lamp switch. Is it possible to use them on our cars, or should I go ahead and remove them? If I remove them what should I fit in their place?

I also saw the ridge and a right angle piece about two inches from the top. I figure all of that angle piece has to go, but does the entire ridge need to be smoothed down? If so should I use just a regular angle grinder or should I get the air rotary tool out and dress it with stones?

Tomorrow morning I'm ordering the kit, clutch slave, and speedometer adapter. Next weekend is looking like the one to perform the conversion. I'm not waiting for Winter. There's still some driving time to be done down here!

 

[JPSmit]

Figured I might as well post here as anywhere. I was driving home from points north and stopped at a used book store. For the grand sum of 50 cents I bought a Haynes Datsun 210 Manual. If there is interest, I'd be happy to scan and email the transmission chapter. Also, I think someone here has the 210 transmission and engine - if you want the manual after let me know.

:banana:

 

[losmorob]

When you get the kit, the instructions will answer all of your questions. I believe they're posted on their website as well. I remember reading them there.

Take pics please. I've had the transmission for a few months now and I'm getting close to ordering the kit as well. Any info is greatly appreciated.

Got home late this evening and spent about 10-15 minutes looking the "new" transmission over. Looks to be in decent shape. There are two electrical plugs on the right side of the gearbox. I suspect one is a reverse lamp switch. Is it possible to use them on our cars, or should I go ahead and remove them? If I remove them what should I fit in their place?

I also saw the ridge and a right angle piece about two inches from the top. I figure all of that angle piece has to go, but does the entire ridge need to be smoothed down? If so should I use just a regular angle grinder or should I get the air rotary tool out and dress it with stones?

 

[lesingepsycho]

#1)On my install I cut the hole for the starter clearance and ground down the bellhouse rib with an angle grinder (no more than 10 minute job). Looks were not too important for me so I didn't bother cleaning it up. In actuality, the rib you are grinding off is so that the tranny will clear the heater box area which means that when the tranny is installed, it's mostly tucked back and out of sight anyways.

#2)Also, my understanding is that the reverse light switch has to come out for clearance. I didn't want to bother with a reverse light switch either so I pulled the lamps and filled the holes.

#3)I used the Morrisservice kit and it gives me piece of mind to have the Datsun clutch pack. Now I'm wishing I had used a different slave option however as mine is starting to leak again for the umpteenth time. So I may get a billet replacement from Rivergate when I have the extra dough.

#4)And this may be the most important. Start with fresh oil in the tranny. The drain plug on the tranny is TAPERED PIPE THREAD. DO NOT OVER-TIGHTEN or you will crack the transmission housing! Ask me how I know this one or rather, don't ask as it is too painful for me to think about just now. Use thread sealant and go just snug.

I can't think of much else to add except +1 for best mod I've made to the car so far. This tranny improves the driving characteristics SO greatly you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.

JACK

 

[CraigZ]

#1)On my install I cut the hole for the starter clearance and ground down the bellhouse rib with an angle grinder (no more than 10 minute job). Looks were not too important for me so I didn't bother cleaning it up. In actuality, the rib you are grinding off is so that the tranny will clear the heater box area which means that when the tranny is installed, it's mostly tucked back and out of sight anyways.

Heh. Wish I'd know that when I did my swap 15 years ago...we chose to dimple the underside of the heater box instead. A few well placed whacks with a knockoff hammer sorted that out :hammer:

#2)Also, my understanding is that the reverse light switch has to come out for clearance. I didn't want to bother with a reverse light switch either so I pulled the lamps and filled the holes.

Pretty much what I did...there was not clearance for the switch. I ran the switch in tight and trimmed the switch off flush to plug the hole.

#3)I used the Morrisservice kit and it gives me piece of mind to have the Datsun clutch pack. Now I'm wishing I had used a different slave option however as mine is starting to leak again for the umpteenth time. So I may get a billet replacement from Rivergate when I have the extra dough.

I used the Datsun clutch and slave - took my flywheel to a local shop and they mounted it for me. We plugged the side fitting on the slave then drilled and tapped a new hole on the end for the connection. 15 years later no leaks.

#4)And this may be the most important. Start with fresh oil in the tranny. The drain plug on the tranny is TAPERED PIPE THREAD. DO NOT OVER-TIGHTEN or you will crack the transmission housing! Ask me how I know this one or rather, don't ask as it is too painful for me to think about just now. Use thread sealant and go just snug.

Thanks for that tip...a trans oil change on mine is coming soon on mine.

I can't think of much else to add except +1 for best mod I've made to the car so far. This tranny improves the driving characteristics SO greatly you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.

What he said. Get up to about 45 mph and slip it into 5th gear and the car grows legs...it cruises happily and effortlessly at 65 mph now.

 

[jhorton3]

I ordered the kit with Rivergate's clutch slave kit and speedometer kit. Hopefully it will arrive by end of next week as I've got a 4 day weekend I can put toward getting it done.

 

[lesingepsycho]

A 4 day weekend could mean a couple days of fun driving if all goes well! Seriously, I had mine done start to finish in two, relatively short and relaxed days with no helpers. Day one I pulled the engine and did the tranny prep (grinding, cutting, etc). Day two, stuffed it back in, bled the clutch and was off and running. Heck, I think somebody who was really motivated could do it in one longish day without too much trouble. An additional set of hands couldn't hurt either.

Good luck!

JACK

 

[kcbugeye1275]

The 5 speed is a nice addition. A 3.9 rear end is another thing to think about. And if you haven't already, a front sway bar. Winter projects, aren't they great. A couple yrs ago, I put electric heaters in the seats. They are really nice this time of yr. So many things to do, only one winter.