axle leak and bearing spacer measurement

[Andy65]

Oil drip at right rear wheel and lots of oil in the brake drum. 65 BJ8. Kudos to Dave the Yoda Russel for his post saying this is likely due to the paper gasket and not the oil seal. Saved me a lot of misery trying to get the oil seal out. No, I had not just added oil. The lug nuts seemed tight. The bearing spacer protrudes .035 beyond the gasket. Not a typo: .035. I measured by laying a feeler gauge on the paper gasket. Is that correct way to measure? I understand it is supposed to be .001 to .004. What's going on and what's the fix? Anyone else seen this amount of protrusion? Do I need three gaskets?

 

[Andy65]

Which cars have the axle O-ring in addition to the seal? And where is the o-ring located? I haven't found it.

 

[Dave Russell]

I believe that all later axles, BN4 & up, had an additional O ring seal. This seal would fit in a groove just inside the paper gasket. The outer face of the hub, part that the paper gasket fits onto, should be relieved for this O ring. The ring is about 3.575" OD & .160" cross section. Since this ring does most of the sealing, I don't think the paper gasket compression is quite so critical to sealing.

Still, your bearing with spacer projection sounds to be a bit much. Are you sure that the bearing is fully seated in the hub?

I can't say what combination of parts your car may have ended up with.

There are a couple of bearing spacer thicknesses. (Spacer ring on the outside of the bearing.) You may have the wrong spacer for your setup. BN7 thru BJ8 had a different spacer.

I'll let someone who has more experience with the later model spacers, bearings, & hubs provide this information. _ Keoke?
D

 

[Andy65]

I can't tell if the bearing is seated properly. Anyway to measure it? Suppose I could take the nut off and tap it with a drift of some sort but I don't have a proper drift. Or would tightening the nut force it in?

Is it possible the paper gasket is so compressed that that is why the measurement is off? As I measure at different places the spacer protrudes further in some than others. I really need to know the measurement without a gasket to know if the bearing seated.

re spacer, my catalogs only show BN6 and older spacers and BN7 and newer. Are the old spacers thicker and will they fit on an BJ8?

Looks like you have to pull the paper gasket off and destroy it to see the oil seal, correct?

Odd thing is that this has never leaked before.

 

[Dave Russell]

#1- I can't tell if the bearing is seated properly. Anyway to measure it? Suppose I could take the nut off and tap it with a drift of some sort but I don't have a proper drift. Or would tightening the nut force it in?

#2- Is it possible the paper gasket is so compressed that that is why the measurement is off? As I measure at different places the spacer protrudes further in some than others. I really need to know the measurement without a gasket to know if the bearing seated.

#3- re spacer, my catalogs only show BN6 and older spacers and BN7 and newer. Are the old spacers thicker and will they fit on an BJ8?

#4- Looks like you have to pull the paper gasket off and destroy it to see the oil seal, correct?

Odd thing is that this has never leaked before.

1- Measure the bearing shoulder projection, plus spacer, out of the hub. If it isn't the same all of the way around, the bearing is not completely seated in the hub. If the bearing correctly fits in the hub it will be tight enough to require a press. Tightening the nut would not seat the bearing deeper. The nut clamps the bearing to the axle but doesn't affect the seating in the hub. I usually heat the hub to get the bearing out. To put it back in, freeze the bearing, heat the hub, & tap the bearing in. The nut should be tightened to 100 lb/ft or more if you can get it.

2- See #1.

3- I don't know how much difference there is in the two spacer types.

4- The "seal" if you mean the O ring, should lie just inside the gasket & should be 90% exposed.

There is a real seal behind the bearing in the hub. This seal rides on an extension of the axle housing. The bearing has to be removed before removing the seal. If the bearing is presently seated crooked in the hub, this inner seal may be damaged.
D

 

[Keoke]

OK Andy, If it never leaked before then I suspect the oil seal inside the hub has failed. The "O"ring should be located under the paper gasket. To assure yourself that the bearing is seated in the hub correctly place a flat object over the bearing and tap it forcefully if the impact feels solid and the bearing does not move it is seated correctly. Actually unless the nut was inadvertently left loose the bearing can not move in an outward direction. Trying to force the bearing in flush with the hub's face will break the hub. Replace the seal after filling it on the spring side with grease. Be sure you install the seal the right way around. Replace the "O" ring and the gasket with new parts. Coat the gasket on both sides with sealer. "If" there is a spacer install it just as you found it. Carefully reinstall the Axel and you should be good to go.---Fwiw-Keoke

Note removing the seal and bearing and reinstallation can be simplified if the hub is removed from the axel assembly. However, do it using the method you are most comfortable with.

What you might do as an interim is just replace the "O" ring and gasket it may last for quite a while.

 

[Andy65]

You suspect the oil seal inside the hub. If the oil seal is shot, wouldn't oil leak to the axle case instead of the drum? Not getting oil on the case. All in the drum - until I pulled the axle shaft out then had oil on the floor(duh).

I'm hesitant to remove the hub. Does it usually take a puller? Need to buy expensive right socket too.

 

[Keoke]

No Andy, it will come out at the outboard end of the hub and leak down the back side and front of the backing plate wetting the brake shoes in the process.

The hubs in good shape are very tight interference fits onto the Axel assembly , but can usually be removed using a lead or dead hammer. A puller is the preferred tool.

Why not initially, just replace the "O" ring and gasket that's a simpler short time fix. That old thin fish paper gasket has done its job and needs replacing.---Keoke

 

[Andy65]

I'll follow your advise and just go for the O ring and gasket. I held a piece of the old gasket that wasn't compressed against the spacer and the measurement is right on. Without gasket, bearing looks evenly in position. O-ring has that gooey, sticky feel so I suspect that is the culprit.

Dave's post in the archives "rear wheel oil leak" is where the oil seal=axle drip. O ring or loose hub=brake drip came from. It would seem to me, if the oil seal failed, oil would flow past the bearing and out to the drum as you say.