TR2/3/3A Steering parts

[Frank Canale]

I have started ordering parts only to find that nobody had all the parts as the big 3 all are dealing with back orders and that is ok I am in no hurry. I am looking at the up grade bushings that go in the steering tube above and below the steering shaft coupler. It is a good looking part but is it better than the standard bushing? It cost 3 times as much so a pricy upgrade since it takes 2 of them. Thank you Hamish for the suggestion of the Ackerman steering arms, and the spring loaded top plate. I will be looking into that. I have already upgraded to the TR4 upper and lower control arms and plan big brake upgrade. Steering peg has been pressed out, rotated, and pressed back in. Very happy with that. Frank

 

[sp53]

I have only heard stories of them not going back in very well or coming out easy, I have never replace them. Plus I would think the problem is an aftermarket crap probable.

 

[Hamish Racing]

Frank if you go for the Ackerman arms you will probably need the small track rod ends (ball joint) to clear the brake disc. As you get a longer steering arm that the track rod end fits into. And you may need to remove the disc back plate.

 

[Frank Canale]

Thank you Hamish for the information. I love this kind of stuff. It doesn’t matter if I do it or not I have learned a little more about suspension geometry and I feel it will help with setting up the front suspension. Frank

 

[Snowkilts]

Frank if you go for the Ackerman arms you will probably need the small track rod ends (ball joint) to clear the brake disc. As you get a longer steering arm that the track rod end fits into. And you may need to remove the disc back plate.

What are Ackerman arms?

 

[CJD]

Frank, I would pass on the spring loaded adjuster plate. If you do a search, you will find it has come up several times, with the consensus being it doesn't last well. In a new rebuild it serves no purpose. In an old box it may help a bit, but the spring assembly eventually self destructs.

 

[Frank Canale]

Ackerman arms are a longer steering arm that changes the steering geometry. There are lots of explanations on the internet from basic to very technical. Thank you John, I looked at the listing for the spring loaded adjuster plate and saw that it looks like the adjuster is drilled for a spring and a pin on the spring so I fully understand why it doesn't hold up. Certainly did not see spending that much for the plate. My adjuster plate is in very good shape so I am going to go with it. I am not sure how long it will take for parts to arrive so I can start putting it back together. Frank

 

[TR-3rg]

Hi,

One more vote for the Ackerman arms from Revington. If you have stock tires, it may not help that much. I have 195/60-15 and it really helps. I replaced all of the steering column bushings and the Silent Blocks with Teflon bushings. Rebuilt the steering box and it steers good, 70+ mph with no shake or wondering in the wheel. I also have the TR-4, 3 degree caster trunnions and upper control arms.

I had a spring loaded cover but used the stock with the rebuild. The 1" of slop in the steering wheel I was trying to get rid of was not the steering box, the steering wheel was loose on the shaft. Found that when I replaced the steering column bushings.
Good Luck,

Roy
1960 TR-3a

 

[Frank Canale]

Thank you Roy, Sounds like your car is set up like I am planning for mine. What type of wheels are you running? Did you run into any problems using that size tire? Did you use the standard steering column bushing or the uprated one? They both look to be a (nylon, delron) type of bushing but the up rated one is much more substantial. I am not sure that is necessary with a properly set up steering box. Frank

 

[Hamish Racing]

Hi,

One more vote for the Ackerman arms from Revington. If you have stock tires, it may not help that much. I have 195/60-15 and it really helps. I replaced all of the steering column bushings and the Silent Blocks with Teflon bushings. Rebuilt the steering box and it steers good, 70+ mph with no shake or wondering in the wheel. I also have the TR-4, 3 degree caster trunnions and upper control arms.

I had a spring loaded cover but used the stock with the rebuild. The 1" of slop in the steering wheel I was trying to get rid of was not the steering box, the steering wheel was loose on the shaft. Found that when I replaced the steering column bushings.
Good Luck,

Roy
1960 TR-3a

Great one Roy.

mid straight line speed stability is a measure. My Aintree video is a good bench mark. ( aintree was the site for the 1959 British Grand Prix) and my car is 1959!
Ignore my miss fire (very frustrating)
At time 7.10 it’s a flying run and the finish straight is 100mph ( well 97mph really)
You can see me bounce about but the car is stable.

 

[Frank Canale]

Great video, interesting to see that you are not fighting the wheel thru the turn. must be a very good setup. Frank

 

[CJD]

I've never been on a course with my TR2, but I regularly hit 105mph on our Texas freeways...just keeping up with traffic...and with a totally stock suspension. No problems at all.

From my understanding, "Ackerman" was the gentleman who realized that the front wheels must turn at different amounts in order not to drag the wheels around a tight turn. The angle of the front wheels must extend to the same point along the line of the rear axle. Carts and mowers must have a perfect ackerman steering or they will bind and scrub when turning.

At speed the ackerman angles are complicated by the fact that any time a tire has a side load (in turns), you also have a skid, and because the weight on the tires differs inside and out, the amount of skid also differs. The end result is designers start with a "modified ackerman" steering set-up, and then road test to determine the "optimum modified ackerman" steering for the tire and suspension being used. The ackerman angles are important in tight parking lot turns, but nearly meaningless on fast roadway turns.

In summary, I think the TR factory steering angles are fine for tires close to OEM. If you go with much different tire sizes and compounds, then the car may benefit from a modified steering setup. Remember that any modification from the perfect ackerman steering will make tight turns bind up. For example, my 2017 Vette uses highly sticky 14" wide tires. It handles close to a McLaren on the track and stops so fast that it undershot the Road and Track skid pad. But, in a parking lot the tires crunch and grind across the pavement...the ackerman steering angles were highly modified. The Vette was optimized for the track and has power steering...our TR's do not.

I'm not recommending going either way. Just trying to give some food for thought. If you drive mostly around town, you could make the car a bear in the parking lot to gain a slight edge on the track.

 

[Frank Canale]

Thank you John, great input as always. This is totally an exercise in thought and I welcome everybody’s opinion not only to help with the set up of my car but also to help others that already are driving their cars and may be having trouble with their driving experience and possibly safety concerns as our cars are 60 + years old. Frank

 

[TR-3rg]

Hi, I have a set of Moss eight spoke Aluminum wheels and a set of early TR-6 steel wheels that I run. The Moss wheels needed a 1/4" spacer on the front hubs and longer studs. They were hitting the upper control are and sway bar (stock TR-6) Had to knock the edges off the Upper Control are (late TR-4).

On a highway, I dont think Ackermann would matter. The radius of a turn is so large, the difference between the inside and outside radius is insignificant. On a TR-3 the inside wheel does not turn enough. the outside turns to much. Only feel it in tight turns.

RG

 

[Frank Canale]

Tackled upper steering column disassembly today. As it turns out I have an adjustable steering column. The trafficator seems to be in ok shape, nothing broken but it will need some work to free it up better. The steering wheel is intact but the outer covering is not that good lots of cracks from shrinkage. The upper steering shaft and column are good just need blasting and new bushings. The adjustable shaft does not seem as desired as the standard steering shaft. The adjustable one is a little closer to the driver, I am short and I don't think that will matter to me.some parts came today and am not happy with gaskets folded up on edge where they folded cardboard over and taped it up like a mummy. I won't be using these gaskets, look like they were cut out of a brown paper grocery sack. Very thin paper gasket. It might work for a template but I will use the cover plates. Frank

 

[CJD]

One thing I found strange with the steering box is that there is a gasket available for the end plate that uses the shims. So there is no sealing between the shims in the stack, but the gasket goes on the top of the stack. I used a small amount of Permatex 51813 on each of the shims and left out the gasket. Not sure if it is necessary, but in 2 builds I've had no leakage from the plate.

 

[DavidApp]

There are some you tube videos of people fixing cracks in things like the steering wheel cover using Super glue and Baking Soda. Seems to set up really hard. Not tried it myself.

David

 

[Frank Canale]

Still waiting on parts from Moss. I have the new bronze bushing from The Roadster Factory and I must say a very nice bushing. It has been pressed in and reamed to a very nice fit. Once the parts get here can the steering box be assembled and shimmed to the correct center preload with the worm, peg and bearings lubed but not filling the box with gear oil. I plan to take it back apart for all the pieces to be painted. Still have the stator tube to make and also looking for one lantern bearing. The top one is missing with the top part of the stator tube. If anyone has one I am interested. Frank

 

[CJD]

The factory assembled the box and then painted it as a unit. I also rebuilt mine and put it on the shelf for several years, so assembling now should not be a problem. Just be sure to use some preservative oil to prevent corrosion.

 

[Frank Canale]

Close to having parts to put steering box back together. I am looking for advice on weather to use the felt for a bushing at the top of the steering tube or a Nylatron bushing. I had the Nylatron to make the bushing so made one to see how it would work. The Nylatron bushing seems smooth with no play. Frank