How to find obscure parts for steering column?????

[vagt6]

I figured out the problem with my '74 MK III Midget steering column. You may recall from the other thread here that I had to remove the column to extract a broken key from the ignition. When we re-installed the column, a sliding yoke part that cinches up to the knurled nut outside the firewall wouldn't stay in place -- it just slid down the front end of the rack.

WHAT HOLDS THIS YOKE IN PLACE:

In the photo, you can see the little square-ish retainers that fit in the grooves in the lower end of the column. These retainers keep the yoke from sliding around. Both of mine are shot, worn out:

Check out the grooves in the column, above. These retainers fit in the groove. Where might I find these little retainers? Moss doesn't seem to sell them:

 

[vagt6]

I MAY have found the solution, on another LBC website.

My column is the one in this video, apparently from a '69'71 model.

Watch the video, it's only 3:21 and explains how the sliding yoke piece is secured to the column by intjection molded plastic thingys:

https://youtu.be/FZgL21adO7M

 

[vagt6]

WOW, that's really interesting and sure does look like what I have. My rack is not the original rack, it was installed by the PO a couple of years ago.

So, the "plastic injection" stuff for the grooves? Holy cow, how in the world would you do this?

I'm thinking that tapping and drilling 2 holes in the column where the plastic stuff was injected, then insert a nylon bolt or screw just right so it catches the groove (see photo, above) in the column might work. This, theoretcally, would allow the column to collapse.

I don't see any way to do this as the factory did originally. What kind of injection stuff to use (too hard, the column may not collapse properly; too soft, it won't hold the yoke up).

Drill and tap the holes just above the grooves, insert nylon or other screw, cinch it up. Job done.

Anyone else??

 

[TraceZ]

JB Weld.

 

[RichBall]

I know a guy in our club that had a similar problem with his '73 MGB. He used a hot glue gun and injected hot glue into the space. I don't know if that would work for you or how well the colum will collapse, but something to think about.

 

[vagt6]

Rich, thanks for the tip. I don't know about glue. In order to retain the safety feature of the collapsible column, the glue would have to be somewhat "weak". Hard to determine the exact properties of glue in this scenario.

I'm going with the nylon bolt method. The nylon bolt will shear off if the column is compromised. Drill and tap the holes (that were used by the factory to inject the glue), fit a nylon bolt and cinch it down on the groove in the column.

It doesn't take a lot of force to secure the sliding yoke, I think a 1/4" nylon bolt will do the trick. I can test it to see how strong it is without driving the car.

This is one of those repairs that you can't be 100% sure of, since there's no way to know exactly how the factory did this (who knows what kind of glue they used??). The tiny, thin pieces of plastic I found in there were very weak looking.

Anyway, onward and upward.

Thanks again for the helpful responses, everyone.

 

[JPSmit]

Mark, how about a zip tie instead of a bolt? this would be even weaker and certainly quicker than threading something. Also, would it make more sense to attach the yoke to the flange at the firewall rather than drilling the column?

 

[vagt6]

JP, the column yoke is already drilled. The holes (one just above each groove) were drilled at the factory in order to inject the glue into the sliding yoke, which filled the grooves.

I'll only need to tap and drill the existing holes a little bigger. BTW, the yoke is not attached to the firewall by anything. The tiny, plastic pieces that fit into the two grooves previously held it in place (see photo of the plastic pieces, above). There was one for each groove.

Thus, something has to fit into the grooves (see photo, above) to stop the sliding yoke from sliding down. Luckily, the metal on the yoke is very thin, very easy to drill.

Seems this particular column was used only from '69-71. Mine is an OEM, never used, off the shelf new part still in the plastic wrapper, installed last year. I found it at a former dealer's auction in Ohio, FWIW.

Strange,but true.

 

[histerical]

Seems to me that a nylon screw in each hole would snug things up, but it appears that the flat of the groove would allow about 1/4" play. The original plastic filled the groove and indexed it to the column, and the four little pins that were formed in the holes were the actual shear pins. Filling the grooves with JB might work, and you could lightly wax the inner shaft so it didn't actually bond together. Maybe using the nylon screws into the JB would also be good. The nylon would then shear on impact, I figure.
Bill

 

[Deleted member 8987]

Boy, if hot glue is too stiff to prevent collapse, you must be using Military Grade hot glue.

Makes you wonder how anybody ever survived without collapsible columns.

 

[vagt6]

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys.

JP, I'm not sure what you mean by the "four little pins". Mine didn't have those. What's that?

Kind of a conumdrum here. There's really no way to put this thing back the way the factory intended (again, we have no idea what kind of glue they used at the factory). If the glue we choose prohibits the column from collapsing, we've got a safety issue. Can't have that.

Other ideas are welcome. I need to think on this a bit before proceeding . . .

 

[BugeyeNJ58]

Mark, thanks for supplying the link to the video. Good information on how that system works.

 

[JPSmit]

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys.

JP, I'm not sure what you mean by the "four little pins". Mine didn't have those. What's that?

Kind of a conumdrum here. There's really no way to put this thing back the way the factory intended (again, we have no idea what kind of glue they used at the factory). If the glue we choose prohibits the column from collapsing, we've got a safety issue. Can't have that.

Other ideas are welcome. I need to think on this a bit before proceeding . . .

actually was someone else mentioned the pins - reading that post, it sounds like the "glue" pushes into the collar at a couple of points creating "pins" which are what actually sheer.

Coming back to your initial issue, I went to Moss' website and looked at the collapsible steering column and the "collapse" part is between the firewall and the steering wheel. This makes sense, partly because the driver is the one to protect, but also because the column is bolted to the firewall and to the steering rack. All this makes me wonder what that piece os actually for? It is spring loaded and held in place with some sort of glue. this suggests to me that in a collision, the glue sheers and the collar slides down to ???? perhaps help the column hold its shape at the other end ??? I really don't know.

All that being said, the collapsing part that is relevant to your ongoing survival is on the other side of the firewall, so, I'd suggest that even if you do nothing, you aren't compromising your own safety in any critical way. Certainly a zip tie or a nylon bolt will almost certainly have a sheer point less than the collapse point of the steel mesh in the column above. This is particularly the case when you consider all the things you must never consider when you drive a Spridget - like the size of the car compared to everything else on the road, and the fact that all this "safety" technology was in its infancy anyway, you know, all the stuff that if we really thought about it would make us sell our cars and buy Volvos.

Seriously though, find a way to hold it in place with something that will sheer and get on with driving.

 

[vagt6]

JP, you're right on in your asessmment of the sliding yoke part. It is spring loaded and the glue that was injected did hold it in place. Over the years all the glue inside the yoke wore away and only the little, tiny pieces in the photo that fit into the grooves, above, held the yoke in place.

I'm gonna do the nylon bolt thing and to heck with it. So much for originiality. But, the nylon bolts will easily keep the yoke in place and they will shear off if the yoke is depressed. This effectively retains the safety feature of the sliding yoke thing.

Always, first and foremost, my chief concern in repairing and restoring these cars is to keep them safe, and to retain any existing safety features no matter how ineffective/outdated the feature my appear to be: in my line of work we know that it's often the <span style="font-style: italic">little</span> things that kill people.

AGain, I appreciate all the great advice. Cheers to you all. :thumbsup:

 

[Deleted member 8987]

You may not be happy with a nylon bolt or tie-wrap. Not sure how in and out forces on the steering wheel might affect it. And for sure, if there is slop in the fit for the two parts, a nylon bolt certainly is not going to fix the slop. When you are dealing with a frontal impact great enough to collapse it, hot glue is better than JB Weld, and beter than a nylon bolt. If a nylon bolt would have worked, that's what they would have done at the factory.

Heat the column up, inject the hot glue (so it doesn't immediately harden upon hitting cold metal), your best bet.

 

[TraceZ]

JB Weld.

I retract my suggestion for JB weld and now support the hot glue. In fact, I think the hot glue may be the perfect answer.

Hot glue will not hold anything up in a collision, it will simply tear away.

 

[vagt6]

Interesting about the glue, guys.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">IF</span> I decide to use glue, I'd have to drill out the holes in the yoke to get the glue in there. The existing holes are verrrry small, no way to get glue in them now.

The spring that cinches up to the firewall end, on the end of the yoke, is not super strong, but strong enough. I'm wondering if the glue will hold the yoke in place.

Maybe a combo of nylon bolt and glue??

Holy cow . . .

 

[RichBall]

I think others here have already explained the hot glue idea, but I'll add some. The idea of the hot glue is not as an adhesive, but more as a somewhat pliable space filler. When and if the column needs to compress the hot glue will tear away and depress from the shaft and collar allowing the column to compress. Similar to what an O-ring might do if you could get one in there.