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Thread: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

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  1. #41
    Moderator Mickey Richaud's Avatar
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Yep - opinions are like... well, you know!

    As I mentioned, I'm old school, which includes keeping the car as original as possible. But not averse to upgrades when they are merited. As for carburetion, I'm definitely in the SU camp. My experience, though maybe not as extensive as some, has been the opposite from what you mentioned above. Once the SUs were set up properly I hardly ever touched them. And oil leakage is quite minimal, as long as the reservoirs aren't overfilled.

    Having said that, I cut my automotive teeth on Volkswagens back in the late sixties/early seventies. Back then, we couldn't WAIT to slap a Weber (or better, two!) on our buggies.

    Anyway, whatever you end up doing, I'm sure you'll continue to enjoy it!

    Mickey
    "There are three kinds of men. One who learns by readin'. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on that electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
    Mickey Richaud - '73 MGB, '69 MGB GT/V6 (both SOLD! ); Victor TF 1800; '03 Jaguar XK8
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  2. #42
    Great Pumpkin DrEntropy's Avatar
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    If the Weber was just bolted on "out of the box" and not checked/jetted for the engine, it can be a problem, even if the supplier claimed it to be for the application. Found that to be the case more than once.

    The only real difference between Webers and SU's is that the Weber has an accelerator pump. SU's do not. Both are quite reliable once set up properly. The reason our personal MGB here is Weber'd is that I've built the engine with higher compression and used a higher lift/short duration Crane cam. The 40 DCOE suited the purpose better in that I've a good selection of jets for tuning them, whereas SU needles are more problematic to get my hands on. Though the 'net makes that a bit easier now.

    In my experience, the downdraft Webers were usually fitted to these cars out of frustration over not understanding the SU's and how to set them up. On a stock engine, once the SU's have been properly gone through and bench set, they are pretty much a bolt-on-n-go job. A good tutorial is the book "Tuning SU Carburettors."

    Both Webers and SU's are nearly infinitely tuneable, it just requires patience and an understanding of how each works. And a pair of "ColorTune" tools really helps initial set up. Pricey, but for dual carb setups it saves a LOT of time.
    '64 MGB, '67 Lotus Elan S-3 DHC,'69 Lotus Elan +2
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Monday March 9, 2020 1:01 AM


    Well, I found a killer deal on some tires. Yeah they aren't a big name brand, but apparently they are made by a Cooper.

    Ordered from pepboys some Starfire RS-C2.0. Couldn't pass up a price of $26.40 per tire for a total with tax out the door of $122.63. **** for a car I will drive on a weekend and occasional weekday, figured why not. no need to spend double that or more per tire. Sure they aren't Michelin, Pirelli, etc, but I am sure they will get the job done.

    I've got a friend who works in the tire business who will mount them and balance them for me usually for a really inexpensive price. Pepboys wanted around $25.00 or more per tire to mount them, figured that was not worth it when I have never paid that much in my life to mount a tire. Usually like $10.00 if that.

    So the car will have fresh rubber on it soon.

    I ordered several paint cans of various types.

    1. Black Refinisher by colorbond to spray the black interior bits
    2. Black Matte paint to paint the ashtray and other bits that I want matte black
    3. Super high temp 2000 degree black to paint the exhaust header
    4. Rustoleum merlot for the engine - I have heard its a very good match
    5. Silver wheel paint for the wheels
    6. Clear for the wheels
    7. Graphite wheel paint I may use possibly for the wheels in place of the black.
    8. Colorbond Autumn leaf

    May switch to the SU carbs. I am just not convinced the weber is the look for the car I want. I am sure it will perform ok, but I kind of prefer the look of the SU carbs. I have a line on a pair from someone so I may just buy them. I figure either way I can't lose on that price. Mine need to be rebuilt anyway, because they were sitting in a box for probably over 20 years. At least the pistons move ok, so figure they aren't too bad overall though. I may just take them apart and drop them in carb cleaner and replace the gaskets and re-oil them and see.

    I'm going to stop by the car when I have some time to just spend some time with it. not sure if I will have a chance to do anything with it, but still need to go there anyway to measure something I am selling.

    I had a couple of hours with the car today.

    I installed the New Coil I got, a Beru Not bosch, but the beru is german and had good reviews and was a great price, took a little fiddling with the bracket to get it in. I know people recommend the Bosch blue, but I just couldn't justify the price for one when I am still tinkering with the car. Beru is a brand I have used plenty of over the years with my Mercedes cars, and always quality. So I went with it and I am happy with it. I've still got a working lucas coil either way so no worries. If I decide to do the bosch later, I'll have the beru as my roadside spare with extra points, condenser, cap and rotor.

    Of course new coil so I had to give her a start, Put on the choke, turned the key and she lit off without much cranking. Warmed her up a little and played with the timing on the dizzy a bit, adjusted the carb a bit more, and its getting better. I'm thinking I may pick up a colortune kit to see how I am doing as far as tuning goes.

    Revs good, and is idling a bit better.

    Today Was time to tackle the heater and see what was what with it.

    I removed the bypass on the heater core where the hose coming from the pump was blocked off. Got the car warmed up and activated the heater valve, turned on the noisy fan, and got a bit of air movement, but not getting warm. I figured the heater valve was bad.

    Swapped the heater valve with the new one I had, and found the hose coming out of the heater valve plugged up with deposits. block side looked god, but heater valve also blocked up. Glad I had a new one.

    Cleared the hose blockage, put on the new heater valve, not too easy with coolant in the car, but I got it on and its not leaking. Yes I did cover the dizzy with plastic first.

    Restarted the car, and for the first time with low coolant since I lost a decent amount, the temp gauge went to just above Middle. Got some heat coming out of the vents, fan seems weak, and box probably needs sealing, but heater seems to function. I may still need a new core, but for now I'm happy as it does not appear to be leaking. Wondering why it was bypassed, but I will assume the core was leaking so they bypassed it, or the system was clogged up so they simply disconnected it. Who knows at this point, but for now seems to be ok.

    My heater control knob was loose, popped off the chrome cap and it was all worn inside and the set screw was stripped and wouldn't come out. had to break the knob to get it off, and in doing so, accidentally broke the control too. Oops, now I need to find one, luckily there is the BST on the forum.

    After spending the time to diagnose the heater and tweaking a bit on my dizzy and carb settings, the car is finally running a bit better at idle, a decent amount smoother, and rpms no longer jumping up and down, a little fluctuation but nowhere near where it was before jumping. I can still feel the engine seems like it runs a bit rough.

    My next guess at that is dried out motor mounts, after all car sat 20 years, so I suspect the mounts just got hard so its basically like having solid mounts. Figure I should probably change them out.

    Happy with how its coming so far. Confirmed my tires will be in on weds, so I'll have her sitting on 4 new tires soon. I'll be painting the wheels before putting on the new tires, so they will look good. I don't need the wheels perfect, just looking nice.

    Next time I am at the car, I will swap the manifold gasket since I got a new one, and I think I will check out the brakes.

    So far after checking the fuel filter and having put in a little over 1/4 tank of gas, the rear filter before the pump is clean, meaning no chunks of anything in it. Happy with that as it means the tank itself is in ok shape.

    Its coming along, and I suspect I'll be taking a first test drive in a few weeks....

    Its getting there.

  4. #44
    Great Pumpkin DrEntropy's Avatar
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Good progress!

    Your Weber is a DFV (I assume). With the timing set and the engine up to temp, turn the idle screw in until it starts to run "lumpy" or miss/start to stall... unwind it out 3/4 turn and it should be as good as it can be for the idle. Save the cash on the ColorTune(s) unless/until you swap out the Weber for the SU's.

    On tires... for now they just have to hold air and be round and black. You can get fancy after the rest is sorted.

    Brakes... "It don't matter how fast it goes, it matters how well it stops!" That should be a dual master cylinder car, at the very least the system should be flushed so you have fresh fluid through the entire system. If t'wer my charge, it would get rebuilt master and new rear cylinders at the very least, and a new master if ANY pitting or ridges are evidenced in the bore.
    '64 MGB, '67 Lotus Elan S-3 DHC,'69 Lotus Elan +2
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Its a DGV. Ordered a Colortune just because new tool.

    Tires will be fine for me I'm not racing around, just cruising, cant go wrong for the price I paid.

    Brakes. Well Ive gone and ordered new hoses for the brakes and clutch. I also have new rear wheel cylinders as well. Also ordered new mounts for the engine and trans. Figure it cant hurt. the rest of the rubber on the car is so dry and brittle, I figure may as well just replace them.

    Also ordered several other tid bits I know I will need. little bolts and nuts and things as well as some rubber pieces too I know I will need.

    Its coming along. Should be rolling down the road soon

    Quote Originally Posted by DrEntropy View Post
    Good progress!

    Your Weber is a DFV (I assume). With the timing set and the engine up to temp, turn the idle screw in until it starts to run "lumpy" or miss/start to stall... unwind it out 3/4 turn and it should be as good as it can be for the idle. Save the cash on the ColorTune(s) unless/until you swap out the Weber for the SU's.

    On tires... for now they just have to hold air and be round and black. You can get fancy after the rest is sorted.

    Brakes... "It don't matter how fast it goes, it matters how well it stops!" That should be a dual master cylinder car, at the very least the system should be flushed so you have fresh fluid through the entire system. If t'wer my charge, it would get rebuilt master and new rear cylinders at the very least, and a new master if ANY pitting or ridges are evidenced in the bore.

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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Got the interior carpets and panels!!! Seatbelt due in soon. Got the 40897 dizzy and plan to install it in the car. Got ti all scrubbed and clean. just waiting on the cam lobe lube to come in that I ordered and will oil it up below the baseplate.

    Not going to be putting the interior in yet. that will come but first car needs to be driving and then I will talk to my bodyshop about the bodywork. once that is done then I can worry about the interior.

    Still will need to replace every bit of rubber trim on the car. Have a bunch I got with the car and have a few pieces I ordered.

    next project for me will be redo the wheels. waiting on my masking tape to come in. Yes I could buy some masks, but I feel the tape is the better method. plus once I do one wheel I should hopefully be able to use the tape on the other wheels if not I'll spend time taping but thats ok. Tossing around the idea of doing the wheels in silver as normal but instead of the black in the center, a graphite color which should be a very dark metallic grey. May be a nice contrast and just a tad different. once wheels are done, I can get the tires mounted on them.

    It is coming along.

  7. #47
    Great Pumpkin DrEntropy's Avatar
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    We used the body color for the accent on the wheels. You will likely have to mask each one individually. Perhaps the graphite color for the overall and the car color for the inserts? The masks are frustrating, BTW.
    '64 MGB, '67 Lotus Elan S-3 DHC,'69 Lotus Elan +2
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    I'm going to tape by hand. I got some body tape 1/8 inch and some 3/4" so I can paint silver and simply trace around the rest or paint the centers then tape them and paint the silver. Not sure how I will do it just yet, but I worry with masks that you have to be super precise and with tape you can simply tape where you need to. I figure I'll test the graphite color on something first as it will be a dark grey and I'm just not sure on it but will see. Raining here so I will not be able to do anything until it dries up anyway.



    Quote Originally Posted by DrEntropy View Post
    We used the body color for the accent on the wheels. You will likely have to mask each one individually. Perhaps the graphite color for the overall and the car color for the inserts? The masks are frustrating, BTW.

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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Update as of 04/02/2020

    The good:

    Swapped in 40897 Distributor
    Changed thermostat
    Changed coolant temp sensor
    Changed heater valve
    Changed heater control Cable
    Changed heater control
    Replaced heater fan
    Removed old seats
    Found all the pieces to replace the Weber carb with the original SU carbs - by the way they look immaculate inside!
    Got car running pretty well with the weber as it is.

    The bad
    found two small rust holes under the seats - guess what, not going to be replacing the floors, 'll have them patched and sealed. not worth replacing floorpans for 2 holes maybe the size of a quarter / 50 cent coin.

    Whats next?

    Got a bunch of tid bits I probably shouldn't have ordered but figured I needed. no biggie I know I will need it.

    Next up - refinish wheels, mount new tires, and get those brakes flushed, bled and replace the rear wheel cylinders. I'll replace the front pads and rotors if needed and rear shoes and drums if needed.

    Got a ton of paint, semi gloss black, mate black, high temp, engine maroon, wheel silver, wheel graphite, and a few others.

    I am planning to spray the engine compartment black. Just something I want to do to clean it up and it doesn't have to be body color in there. touch up the motor with the maroon. Repaint the radiator, repaint heater box etc. that will all come later. for now, just going to do the wheels paint so I can get it on 4 good tires as the current tires are so old, that one of them decided to puke its belts out just sitting on the ground. lol.

    Progress happening, slowly but surely, but happening.

    Need to replace the fan belt. I'll take it off and go pick one up a the local parts store.

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    Moderator drooartz's Avatar
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Good work!
    Drew Frink
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Thanks for the update, Alon - you have been busy!

    One suggestion: If you're going to the trouble of painting the engine compartment, you might consider doing body color. I think you'll like it better, it'll provide a good contrast to all the components there - especially suspension bits - and you'll also avoid all the, um... comments from the purists!


    Mickey
    "There are three kinds of men. One who learns by readin'. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on that electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Forget the purists, this is my project.

    Put in new voltage stabilizer for the gauges old one worked fine, but new one is solid state so I feel more comfortable with it. Fired the car up from cold, choke on, crank and boom she lights up without any hesitation. She really starts well. I think the SU's will provide a smoother idle and better throttle response than the weber. I'm sure with time I can tweak the weber but I think I will prefer the SU carbs. Maybe I need to check the valve adjustments again, but they seem ok to me.

    I will need to scrub and clean the SU housings. I was thinking of soaking them in a bucket of carb cleaner or an ultrasonic, but then I would have to really take them all apart and replace every seal and piece of rubber in them and then I would be taking them really far apart, and well that's not my style with this project, so instead I'll pick up something to use to go to town on them them, like maybe a wire wheel for a 4" grinder would help to scrub the housings.

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    Moderator Mickey Richaud's Avatar
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Careful with the wire wheel - that alloy is REAL soft! And, yes, you're gonna like the SUs.
    "There are three kinds of men. One who learns by readin'. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on that electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Update as of 04/15/2020

    Set out to get the brake system redone, new pads rotors wheel cylinders, drums, lines etc.

    Decided to put on the new exhaust /ointake gasket - ended up instaling the SU's and it runs with them. So they work. need to dial in and adjust and all, but they run ok as is.

    I played with settings a bit. can't get idle down really lower than around 1000 which is ok with me. I'd like to get it to 800 but I have a feeling I need to play with timing and I need to redial that in.

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    Great Pumpkin DrEntropy's Avatar
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Static time it to 8~10 BTDC, doesn't matter if #1 or #4 is at the TDC position, just the advance indicated at the crank pulley. The process of setting the SU's can be a bit tedious, but once done they should be fine. I imagine John Twist has a video on the subject, if not there are a number of other sources on the subject.
    '64 MGB, '67 Lotus Elan S-3 DHC,'69 Lotus Elan +2
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Quote Originally Posted by B72Blue View Post
    I played with settings a bit. can't get idle down really lower than around 1000 which is ok with me. I'd like to get it to 800 but I have a feeling I need to play with timing and I need to redial that in.
    It took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out that the best time to set the idle was when the engine was thoroughly warmed up.
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Yes I did set it when fully fully warmed up.

    after sitting a few days, went to the car today to continue one of the projects I have started that I never seems to finish just one at a time I always jump around but thats part of the fun.

    tried starting with no choke wouldn't start - thats a good sign, means its not set too rich.

    Pulled choke on, turned key and she fired up well, let choke in slighltly to fast idle and let her warm up, starts and runs quite well and idle is much smoother than with the weber.

    Su's don;t seems as responsive when revving as the weber did, but I am sure they need more dialing in and adjustments. maybe timing needs a tweak here or there. and some more adjustments. but all in good time.

    For now, I have the brakes to still get done and then the wheels repainting and then the tires and she will be able to drive. That is for sure.

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    Moderator Mickey Richaud's Avatar
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Have to admire your determination! Good work!

    For throttle response, you might play with different viscosities of oil in the dampers. Thicker oil can slow down the piston's rise and fall.

    Mickey
    "There are three kinds of men. One who learns by readin'. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on that electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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    Great Pumpkin DrEntropy's Avatar
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Over the years we've tried every oil from mineral oil to Marvel.Always went back to 30W in the SU's.

    The Weber has an accelerator pump, the SU's don't. That's likely what the quicker response to throttle was with the Weber.
    '64 MGB, '67 Lotus Elan S-3 DHC,'69 Lotus Elan +2
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    Re: 1972 MGB Project Blue First attempt and fixing no spark and other checks

    Still haven't done the brakes. yeah I know I need to.

    But I did finish the center console and refinished the plastics for them. Looking great.

    Will be plugging the radio hole with a blanking plate. have a bluetooth unit going into the bottom left of the console which the bracket is now mounted where the hazard switch used to be. Added volt meter to right side where cigar lighter used to be.

    Love how its coming out.
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