TR4/4A What to look for when buying a TR4

[ShawnC_at_Moss]

So I have convinced a co-worker that has a few Triumphs that he doesn't need his project TR4. Not sure if I need it but that is to be determined. I have never seen the car. Didn't seem worthwhile until he was in the mood to perhaps part with it. Well that time has come and I am going to look at it this weekend. So what are the top 5 things to look for? The little I do know - Windshield frame is rusted but he has a good spare, I believe it is the front lip of the hood is rusted through and finally the block might have a crack in the rear. I have heard from other sources that most blocks likely have the crack and it is common. I do have another source for a couple of blocks so that doesn't worry me much. Supposedly that is all the rust it has but what would you experts look for? This car will definitely push me beyond anything I have done before but I have ringed engines, rebuilt a trans. and the like so mechanicals don't bother me. Electrics are always a test of patience and ingenuity so I am ready for that. Body repair is something completely new to me but if I screw it up or can't do it I can always find someone who can

Thanks in advance,

Shawn

 

[tdskip]

Hi Shawn. Sounds like a pretty rough car, pictures would help us confirm that.

Block should not be cracked, rare in my experience.

The front hood is double skinned, so not-trivial to fix properly.

Check the frame with a close eye on suspension attachment points, check the sills (section below the doors), bottoms of front fender, and inside section fenders front and rear.

I have front fenders both inside and out if it comes, and am over due to come up that way anyway....

 

[ShawnC_at_Moss]

Pictures are definitely a must and I hope to get some this weekend.

 

[tdskip]

BTW - there is a really good place pretty close to you that has pretty much all the parts you'll need. Ha. Sorry.

Do post pictures, the more the better.

 

[ShawnC_at_Moss]

That's a long walk to the warehouse Except a hood. I had never looked, I just assumed we had them if it came to that.

 

[tdskip]

Engine rebuild is straight forward, enough so that I am going to give it a go with LOTS of coaching from Rich. (Right Rich?)

Good excuse to put the 89mm pistons in. Tasty.

Overdrive transmission is massively recommended for the roads out here. You'll use the car more if she has one or you can yrack one down.

 

[ShawnC_at_Moss]

Good call. Didn't even think of OD. Having a Midget doesn't lend itself to that possibility so it didn't cross my mind.

 

[sd80mac7204]

As mentioned the frame is a major checking point. Hoods are like hen's teeth. Over all a TR4 can be very rewarding.

 

[Geo Hahn]

A couple other common rust spots to look over since I don't think of the bonnet as being the most vulnerable to rust:

The sills/rocker panels -- esp below the door & towards the front of the car. A combination of trapped dirt & moisture and blocked drain holes often causes these to rust inside out. Some POs do a quick fix by coating the rockers and/or painting them black. I think black rockers are correct on TR6s but on TR4s those panels were body color & smooth, if they are not, something may lurk below.

Lower edge of boot lid -- there was originally sealant on the backside of the pegs for the T-R-I-U-M-P-H across the boot lid. If these are reinstalled w/o the sealant water may creep in around the holes and find its way down to the rear lip on the boot lid which can then rust from the inside out.

Battery box -- pulling the battery will reveal if splashed acid has eaten into the box or the firewall.

A close look at the front suspension to see if there is evidence of accident damage which may make it difficult to get the front suspension well sorted (since you aren't going to be able to drive the car to see how it handles).

Good luck -- is there a max on your employee discount?

 

[ShawnC_at_Moss]

Thanks for all the great advice. The only thing they look for on my discount is that it is for our own car and we only buy a cars worth of whatever it is.

 

[TR4nut]

Good advice so far, just piling on with comments on checking the rest of the body panels thoroughly. All repairable, but costs will go up quickly. If fenders are good, that saves major cost headaches.

 

[Simon TR4a]

Check at the back of the cockpit, there is a seam from the edge of the cockpit to the crown of the fender each side, about 3 inches. If these seams have been filled it is a sign there was rust. (Water and mud thrown up by the wheels causes this common problem.)
The floors are commonly rusty, car is parked top down, rain makes the carpets wet, and that rusts the floors. They can be cut out and replaced with new floors, but this is quite a bit of work as it is best to take the body off the frame.
If the firewall has significant rust along the seam you have a serious problem!

 

[ShawnC_at_Moss]

When I made my first post I forgot the upcoming weekend was Easter so I didn't get around to seeing the car. However, my wife, son (19), and I made the trip yesterday to check it out. The car is sitting on its wheels and tires in his drive way with flat tires. It was hard to see under the car to check the frame or suspension pieces. One advantage of this endeavor is I have known the owner, a co-worker, for 20 years so he was honest and up front but what he doesn't know he doesn't know like frame condition. The car was parked about 12 years ago because it kept blowing head gaskets, cracked block at right rear stud, and he wanted to freshen up the whole car. Until then he drove it about 90 miles round trip daily. 7 years ago his wife attended Triumphest with him which inspired them both to commit to tackling the project that coming summer but other things came up so there it sits.
I must be honest, in my head I wanted this project, when I saw the car, not that it was in worse shape then I expected, but all the sudden I was unsure. I am basically overwhelmed at this moment because I wouldn't even know where to start on something that has to be brought back from the ground up. So if I go with this I will be asking lots of questions.
Some of the most expensive things I have ever done came to me at no or low cost so I am curious if you would walk away from this project or what price would you expect to pay for a car in this condition. It has steel wheels and NO overdrive but it does have the original california black plates from 1963.

Good - Floors, trunk floor looked to be in great shape. What I could see of the frame and suspension points also looked good (well coated with oil).

Bad - Front of hood rusted through, passenger rocker panel rusted through on top and the rear of door stabilizer rusted (I don't know what this part is called), driver front fender at rear rusted at bottom, rust starting on trunk lid but lip underneath was in good condition, windshield frame rusted out but he has another in good conditon.

Here come the pics

1. Overall photo

2. Hood rusted through on outside. Do you cut out bad and weld in good metal?

3. Passenger rocker panel and door opening stabilizer triangle.

4. Rusted windshield frame

5. Rusted vent cover

6. Rusted driver fender

7. Rust starting on trunk lid

8.Back of hood

9. Passenger and driver floor pan (sprinkler included)

10. Trunk floor

11. Big dent in passenger fender

12. Driver door surface rust

13. Drivers door sill (looked OK)

14. Driver's side suspension photo taken from behind. Doesn't really show anything

15. Dash (why not)

 

[ShawnC_at_Moss]

Is there a photo limit? At least it gave the link to the others. If you have any more questions to help me, please ask. There is more we talked about that I didn't add to this because it is too much.
I do want to throw on more thing out there. My wife, who is not mechanically inclined or ever cared to be is excited about helping. My son who has always helped with the Midget is excited.
I don't want a "restored" car and I find it hard to define what that means. How is something good enough but not restored? I guess we all have our own definition especially when I see cars that have been called "restored" by the owner's and never taken off the frame.
This is a hobby, I could play golf and do, but at the end of the year after spending $X,XXX dollars on green fees and carts what do you have to show for it? My wife isn't ever going to say, "Hey, you wanna go work on your golf game?" but she would say "Do you have anything we can do on the car?". At the end it will be worth less then we spend but isn't that the way all hobbies are? I am looking for the experience and what we can accomplish together.
Just wanted to let everyone know my mind set and expectations which will help you veterans help me.

Wow this is like therapy

 

[glemon]

I try to be optimistic and positive, but I don't think I would buy that car except for parts, there is a lot of rust to repair, if what you see looks that bad there is a lot of fixin' to do.

 

[ShawnC_at_Moss]

Do you think in this case Free would be too much to pay? Not that I can get it for that but I might.

 

[tdskip]

Here are the other pictures;


9. Passenger and driver floor pan (sprinkler included)

10. Trunk floor

11. Big dent in passenger fender

12. Driver door surface rust

13. Drivers door sill (looked OK)

14. Driver's side suspension photo taken from behind. Doesn't really show anything

15. Dash (why not)

 

[tdskip]

Remember, it is always worse than it looks once you get the panels off. And it looks pretty bad with them on. I <span style="text-decoration: underline">hate</span> to say it, but it looks like a parts car to me unless you are itching to spend a lot of quality time with a MIG.

 

[TR6BobNF]

Shawn:
I had 4 TR4A's, one to drive and three to feed it parts. I live in Eastern Canada and our cars were driven 12 months a year back in the day and road salt and salt air rusted them out pretty bad. None of the ones I scrapped were as bad as the one you posted. Can't believe it's a California car -musta been stored in a salt mine! I agree with Glemon and TDSkip that it's a parts car. There is sure to be even worse rust underneath what you can see, eg; rear deck and inner front and rear wings, sills and rockers, A and B pillars. Not even considering what the frame may be like but chances are it's at least gone underneath the T-shirts. Buy it for parts if you can get it cheap and keep looking. When you really think about it, even as a parts car it has little to offer except the drive train, heating and cooling system, a few gauges, etc. Nicest part is the Moto-Lita or Tourist Trophy wheel. Just my two cents worth. Good luck with your choice.
Cheers,

 

[JerryVV]

Give the guy what he wants and tell him to keep the car. Then buy one that runs and is resonably nice. You'll be money ahead. This is a parts car. Too much rust and body damage.