General TR What Happened to My Leaf Spring's Nyloc Nuts? Take a Look . . .

[KVH]

I just bought this TR4A, and I'm readying it for a restoration of sorts.

But what on earth happened to my rear leaf spring U-Bolts and Distance piece. It appears that they were sheared off somehow. But two of the heads actually look like bolt heads, so I'm confused.

If this is damage, how could anyone have that happen and just ignore it? Am I over-reacting here? Take a look please, and tell me if this is remotely normal.

 

[TR4nut]

Not normal but maybe not bad - you need new ubolts for sure. My guess is something scraped or sheared the parts, that bottom play looks scraped. Even if you lost a wheel I don't think that would happen because you'd still have the brake backing plate at a minimum to keep the bottom off the ground.

 

[KVH]

How do I fix? My guess is that I'd jack up under the spring to relieve pressure and then cut the U-Bolts and put new ones on? I'm just not wanting anything to get away from me, like pop ten feet in the air and take my hair with it. Should my old leaf spring be OK? My guess is someone hopped a curb, but don't those look like bolt caps there--and not sheared off nylocs?

 

[trrdster2000]

They bottomed out somewhere along the way. New U bolts will take care of it. Just don't jack it up by the rear axle, somewhere on the frame should be fine, letting the axle hang on the spring. take out one at a time with a large "C" clamp holding the bottom plate in place. Use a 4 inch or such grinder with a cutting disk, that will make short work of it. OR, saw it with a hack saw, if you are not familiar with a grinder.

Wayne

 

[TR3driver]

I believe those are "sheared off nylocs"; you just can't see the seam between the nut & U-bolt any more. They would have gotten fairly hot while being ground down that much; so the seam is probably filled with metal. But I suspect that they would still turn off, if you apply enough force.

It seems to vary from car to car how much force there is on the U-bolts with all the weight off the suspension. With fresh (or overly tall) springs, it can still be quite a bit. What I do is support the frame with jack stands, but use a floor jack and piece of wood to jack under the spring right next to the plate until either the frame starts to lift away from the jack stand; or the axle starts to lift away from the frame. Then if it is easier for you, you can take the damaged nuts off with an impact wrench and socket, rather than having to cut the U-bolts.

I would replace the plate as well, since there is a good deal of it gone in one corner. It will not only be weak there, but the nut won't sit flat.

Definitely needs to be fixed; DPO was either blissfully unaware or sold the car rather than deal with it. The spring doesn't look to have been damaged in the accident, but may be ready to be replaced just because of its age (and apparent lack of lubrication). I've been having a lot of trouble with original springs breaking, which leads me to believe that 50 years may be close to their lifetime in some cases.

 

[Rut]

It looks to me like it lost a rear wheel along the way to grind it down that smooth!
Rut

 

[DavidApp]

It would have to have been the wheel along with the brake drum and back plate. Is the axle tube damaged or worn?

David

 

[KVH]

I'm not seeing any other damage but it sure makes me wonder. I do need to replace that bottom plate, too, as Randall says. I'll check it out further.

I imagine if you hit a curb and ruin a tire and wheel you might be sitting on the spring, and human nature would be to drive off the curb to safety. I can't picture much else because the frame and all else look fine. I'll get my bigger glasses on.

 

[TR3driver]

It would have to have been the wheel along with the brake drum and back plate.

I think that on a 4A with those big spacers, the spring plate hits the ground before the drum does.

 

[DavidApp]

I had just looked at my TR3 setup and had assumed the TR4 was similar in that area.

Is that the passenger side back plate you can see in the first picture?

David

 

[CJD]

Interesting! Been sitting here trying to think how that could even happen...decided the wheel must have gone off the pavement and dropped, so that side of the car skid for some time with all the weight on that plate. Or the knock off came off...might wanna make sure that wheel has the correct RH threads.

And, oh yeah, the plate, u-bolts, and nuts are all toast.

 

[TR3driver]

My guess : LH side and the RH nuts backed off. The knockoffs should be LH threads, but the studs holding the adapter to the hub are still RH threads. And they are easy to overlook.
BTDT

 

[KVH]

My guess : LH side and the RH nuts backed off. The knockoffs should be LH threads, but the studs holding the adapter to the hub are still RH threads. And they are easy to overlook.
BTDT

Weren't the studs RH per the factory? Is it really likely they will loosen and spin off? Scary if so.

 

[TR3driver]

Sorry if I was unclear. Yes, the studs are RH threads on both sides (as most cars are). That makes the nuts on the LH side more apt to self-loosen. I wouldn't say it is "likely", but I have seen it happen several times. First time it happened to me, I almost flipped the car. The knockoff was nice and tight, but one of the studs was broken completely off and the other three weren't far behind. The adapter had chewed through the threads and most of the way through the body of the stud.

Same thing (on the same car, same wheel) happened to my Dad some 30 years later, only he did lose the wheel entirely. I've also had the left side nuts back off on my TR3 and Stag with disc wheels (probably because I forgot to do the final tightening after changing a tire or something like that). Ditto for my huge American car (although there it was the repair shop that apparently left them loose).

There is a good reason that the nuts are supposed to be extra-tight when using a wire wheel adapter. I don't run wires any more, but if I did, I would use a torque wrench on those nuts every time, and recheck them during annual wire wheel maintenance.

 

[KVH]

My guess : LH side and the RH nuts backed off. The knockoffs should be LH threads, but the studs holding the adapter to the hub are still RH threads. And they are easy to overlook.
BTDT

Yes, I think RUT said the same thing.

And guess what? I contacted the PO and he said that in fact he lost that rear wheel. He said nothing happened to the car and he fixed it himself. I think that means he put a new wheel on.

I see a small dimple on the frame near there. I'm picturing the car dragging on the bolt heads for a good 60 feet or more to do that. I'm not seeing any spring or axle damage, and maybe I won't over-worry it.

About the spindles coming loose, if I can't rock the tire wouldn't that be a decent test whether the spindle nuts are holding tight?

 

[trrdster2000]

I've found a few nuts between the wire wheel and hub. Owners came in with a knocking sound in one tire or another. Surprisingly enough found one just last week on the right side front of a TR4A.
It happens, best to check a couple of times a year.

Wayne

 

[Rut]

I have a friend who lost a rear wire wheel on his Bugeye after the nuts backed off on his hub adapter which is similar to the ones Triumph used. If I decide to go the wire wheel route on any car that uses adapters you can bet that I'll put those nuts on with lock tight.
Rut

 

[TR3driver]

About the spindles coming loose, if I can't rock the tire wouldn't that be a decent test whether the spindle nuts are holding tight?

If you mean the splined adapters for the wire wheels, then no, IMO rocking the tire is not an adequate test. You wouldn't be able to feel it even if two of the nuts were completely missing, which obviously is not safe. Remove the wheel, torque the nuts with a torque wrench. IIRC the spec is 65 ftlb, quite a bit tighter than for steel wheels.
The joint must be clamped tight enough to eliminate all relative movement, even as the components flex. Otherwise the movement tends to loosen the nut.