TR4/4A TR4A Front ride height revisited

[Zimmycobra]

Okay folks, I really need your help here. After rebuilding the front suspension of my TR4A, the ride height is too tall. Couldn't figure it out until I just received the latest Victoria British catalog.

For the TR4A, they show that the front springs have an upper and lower rubber spring seat, but no aluminum spacer. They show the aluminum spacer is used on the TR4 with the shorter 9 3/4" springs or the competition springs. They were installed in the TR4A when I got it, but that may have been wrong.

What do you all know about the use of the spacer on the TR4A?

Is there a way to measure the springs installed on the car to determine which springs I have - 9 3/4", competition or stock TR4A?

Thanks in advance. I really appreciate the help.

Corey

 

[HerronScott]

Corey,

Sorry, I don't know any way to tell which springs you have in the car although I thought I recall one vendor marking them with a different color line for each type. Are the springs new and where did you get them from? You would leave the aluminim spacers out with any current stock or mild competition springs (TRF's SAH606 for example which does not change ride height).

Scott

 

[LBCs_since_1988]

Sounds like you've got the tall ones. You'd really have to remove the springs to measure 'em. But you'll have them out anyway to remove the aluminum spacers!

I've got original sagging springs with aluminum spacers. I'm guessing they're the short ones but I'll probably never know for sure since they've sagged too much to get an accurate reading. I'm replacing them this winter along with new leaf springs in the rear.

 

[PeterK]

Both of my 4As came with the aluminum spacer at the top and 3 rubber packing pieces.

Never could figure out the spring color codes, My new ones are 20% stiffer and 1" lower (per Ted at TSI years ago) and are marked green blue. He said leave the spacer out on a 4A when using the HD springs. The new springs were much shorter and had fatter coils than the originals.

I have photos ... somewhere.

 

[Roger007]

Hi,

I'm in the process of rebuilding my front suspension on my 66 TR4A IRS,
and it has the aluminum spacer up on top.

 

[Zimmycobra]

Thanks, guys. Now I am really confused. :crazy:

Really - thanks. It sounds like I have the tall springs and should remove the spacers. Makes sense. The springs, etc were already on the car and the springs were black so not sure that can help me determine the origin. Hoped maybe there was a distinct difference in the number of coils or their wire diameters that could be determined before tearing the suspension apart again!

Oh well, I love car work. (I keep telling myself that!)

Any more help would be appreciated. Thanks again.

Corey

 

[CinneaghTR]

I know you already bought the springs, but Rimmer Bros confirmed they sold the correct stock height front springs. You can look them up pretty easily, but e-mail them to confirm if you are interested.

FWIW, my car came with the rubber pieces top and bottom, no aluminum spacers and I have the correct ride height.

 

[tdskip]

No spacers on my very late TR4a either.

 

[PeterK]

Mine are also fairly late CT66715 and parts car is later than that CT7something. Doesn't mean that they are unmolested but earlier one is number matching and quite intact - well it was before I took it all apart!

 

[Celtic2]

The aluminum packing pieces for the stock front springs were used on the TR4 up to commission number CT29984. They were then removed and a slightly longer spring was used. The original Triumph competition springs were wound in the opposite direction, which makes them easily identified. I don't know if this practice is still followed by after-market reproduction/replacement springs.

gary

 

[HerronScott]

The TR4A SPC lists the aluminum packing piece and short spring as starting again at CTC59836 but doesn't list an end commission number (Fitted from Comm. No. CTC59836 to Comm. No.....).

Note that the short spring and long springs listed for the TR4A have different part numbers than the ones for the TR4 and the long spring for the TR4A has the same part number (213165) as the stock spring for the TR6. So if you are buying new springs these days for a TR4A, I think you would always eliminate the aluminum packing piece since I believe everyone is selling just the long spring for TR4A-TR6 for stock replacements (Moss and TRF for example).

Scott

 

[PeterK]

Moss also lists different alum spacers for the 4A, paired with either the long or short springs.

 

[Zimmycobra]

Thanks. I have Commission Number CTC60311 which is why I probably have the spacer. I have found enough other odd problems during the rebuild that I can be fairly sure now that the springs were replaced at some point and the tall springs were put in with the spacers incorrectly. I will take the springs out and measure and let you know what I find. If I am correct, the springs should be 9 3/4" long if the spacer should be used - longer without the spacer. Right?

More to follow in the future.

Corey

 

[HerronScott]

Moss also lists different alum spacers for the 4A, paired with either the long or short springs.

Peter,

Not sure why they would have one listed for the long spring since it should not have one. Looking closely at the TR4A SPC, I think they accidentally left the spacer from the TR4 SPC since it has the same part number as the spacer for the TR3-TR4 (107682). There is an extra note that states "Packing pieces 144910 to be used with road spring 211648 only. Front road spring 213165 may be used for all replacements.".

Scott

 

[HerronScott]

I will take the springs out and measure and let you know what I find. If I am correct, the springs should be 9 3/4" long if the spacer should be used - longer without the spacer. Right?

Corey,

Not sure on the lengths, but Moss does list the short springs as approximately 9 1/2" and the long springs as approximately 10 1/4".

Scott

 

[Zimmycobra]

Scott:

Thanks - I see that now in the Moss catalog. Don't know how I missed it. The discussion of the spacers in Moss is a bit confusing.

As soon as I can get some time, I will take suspension apart and measure the springs that I have and go from there. From the look of my front ride height, I can pretty well guess that I have the long springs and will have to remove the aluminum spacers. I'll report back when I can.

Thanks, everyone.

Corey

 

[HerronScott]

Corey,

Just curious since we had this discussion recently for Tom and his TR4A, what's the distance from the top of the tire to the fender on yours?

Scott

 

[Zimmycobra]

Sorry, Scott - car is already on front jack stands so I can't measure right now. I think when I measured recently it was a little over 4.5". May have been a bit more but I can't remember exactly.

 

[Zimmycobra]

Okay, all - took the suspension apart today and removed the aluminum spacers. The springs measured about 9 3/4" or a bit longer. I reassembled the suspension and it is a bit better. It was a lot easier to reassemble due to the longer space without the spacers. The ride height appears a bit better. Still a bit higher than I expected, but it is better. Space above tire is about 3 3/4" but these are also 30 year old poly tires. Still have the hood off so that should lower things a bit by weight as well. Nothing else that I can do.

I have loosened all of the suspension bolts to let the suspension settle with the new polyurethane bushings. Will tighten them up very soon.

Thanks for the help.

Corey

 

[Willie_P]

In a separate post, I am debating cutting my 9 3/4" stock springs on a '62 tr4.

however, further thought has me considering NOT cutting the springs, but instead just not using the alloy upper spring spacer.

anyone try this or think this could work? I am using new 20% HD shocks from TSI/Ted. would the springs bottom out (at the upper bump stop) since they are not stiffer grade springs?

obviously (from what I read) you can use shorter competition grade (9 3/4") HD springs on the 4a with no alloy spacer.

as well, cutting the alloy spacer has been suggested, but after looking at the spacers last night, I am not sure how to do that and still have the effective use of the spacer (to locate the spring properly) and also lose enough height such that you'd actually make a difference in ride height. (I am looking to lower the car at least 1" and possibly 1.5 inch if possible, but no more).

thots?