TR2/3/3A tr3 numbers matching

[bluemiata90]

I just purchased a 1961 TR3, I was told that the seller was the original owner. The seller stated that everything was original. I removed the engine and had it powerwashed, on the side of the engine under the grease, I found TR3 written in orange paint. I took the engine number and compared it to the vin. and they don't match. If this was the original engine, should the engine and vin numbers match. How can I tell if this is the correct engine. To be honest with you,I'm hoping that at one time the engine may have been replaced with a rebuilt one. I really don't care about originality. Any help would be appreciated /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

 

[sammyb]

The VIN and engine numbers will not match (this ain't a Chevy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) Basically, the VIN is a commission number, and there are also body numbers on the two plates on the firewall.

It's really impossible to ascertain if it's the original engine by number alone, but chances are that if it's original owner, it is the same engine.

Unlike American cars, "matching numbers" really doesn't matter with TRs. With TRs, it's all about options and quality. Very few people even care if a car is missing an "O" designation on the commission plate, yet has an overdrive tranny (which has been added by an owner.)

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Hi Scott -

If you're really interested in getting the scoop on your car, you can send in to the British Heritage Motor Industry Trust for a build certificate. Pretty neat item to add to your collection. It will outline the date your car was built, where shipped (country), the color combination, and the equipment it came with from the factory. It will also give the pertinent numbers that Sammy was talking about, and you'll find the engine number is larger than the commission number, because these engines were used in other vehicles.

Oh, and the orange paint - it came that way from the factory, but not on all cars. It is said that that's how they determined which ones would go in TR3's. Mine had it, and when I rebuilt it, I painted "TR3" over the new black paint. (Not that anyone can see it!)

Here's a website for the application form:
https://www.mgcars.org.uk/namgar/bmiht/bmiht.htm

Enjoy your sidescreen TR! A Miata it ain't!

Mickey

 

[bluemiata90]

Thanks for the information. As I mentioned, I really wasn't concerned about numbers matching as I was on trying to find out if the engine had maybe been rebuilt at one time. I was hoping it was, cause that would be one less expense I'd have to put into it. Very interesting about the orange paint, I never would have guessed that it was done in the factory. I'm also going to send away for the build sheet, that will be a nice addition to the cars paperwork. Thanks again.
scott
61 triumph, 75 corvette conv, 73 mustang conv, 90 Miata /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

 

[Geo Hahn]

Of course, the fact that it is the original engine doesn't mean that it hasn't been rebuilt.

And... the fact that it isn't the original engine certainly doesn't mean that is was rebuilt. Back in the days when these cars had little value it was common to simply replace a tired engine with a low mileage engine pulled from a junkyard wreck. In the late 60s/early 70s very driveable TR3s routinely changed hands for a couple of hundred dollars (or less) so the emphasis was often on cheaply keeping them on the road rather than rebuild & restore.

The BMIHT cert is definitely worth getting, but if you post the commission & engine number I expect a TR3A owner with a nearby commission number could tell you if it is likely to be the original.

 

[sammyb]

To expand...many TR3s got wrecked because by the late 1960s, the cars were only desired by high school kids who could put-up with the sidescreens, leaking etc... Kids had a habit of wrecking them (just like Camaros and Mustangs.)

To give you an idea, a former boss of mine in the very early 70s bought a TR3 for $50 with a buddy and spent the summer fixing it up. He said they drove it for about two or three weeks before they destroyed it.

Most cars have "factory markings." GM and Ford cars have always had grease pen and paint marks all over the place.

 

[bluemiata90]

Thanks again to everyone for all the interesting information. Sometimes I think that half the fun of buying an older car is finding the history of it. You've all given me ideas of how to go about finding the history. As suggested above, the Comm.# is TR66384L and the engine # is TS66447E, if anybody has any thoughts about if this is the correct engine for this vehicle, let me know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gif

 

[Geo Hahn]

I think it is very likely that is the original engine. Someone with a TR3A built in the first half of 1960 may be able to tell you if a +63 difference in numbers is about right (it will vary as the engines weren't necessarily used in strict numerical order).

As noted before, the 'spread' developed as engines were sold for use in other cars (Morgans) or sold outright as replacements. I think the spread was much greater prior to April 1959, at that point they jumped ahead about 1,800 commission numbers to implement several major changes starting with commission number TS 50001.

 

[Andrew Mace]

From those two numbers, I'd guess that it's almost certainly the original engine in your car. I have similar "spreads" between commission and engine numbers in both my TR3As.