TR2/3/3A TR3 not starting - Slow/Weak Starter

[RichB4493]

I'm a new 1959 TR3 owner and have acquired a good-looking car that unfortunately is not starting. It has a brand new, fully charged battery. Prior owner (out of state) says it ran fine before shipping. I saw the car running no problems.

Symptoms:

• weak starter - barely turns over
• horns sound week - give a chirp
• Tried jumping with other car - no help
• tried starting with a 50A Starter - no help

Can't crank start as it seems the radiator is about a 1/4" out of position and the crank arm bar end does not smoothly/completely connect to the crankshaft.
I'm nervous about push-starting it down my hill only to have a dead car at the bottom of the street and no easy way of getting back up and into my garage

Car is Positive ground. I've tried removing sanding cable contact points on battery cables and on frame - no help. Oh and BTW, getting to the engine ground is a PAIN!

What would be a recommended sequence to identify the fault? I do have access to a multimeter.

I'm in the Concord, California.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[charleyf]

Start by taking the battery out and take it to a local auto parts or battery store and have them check it.
Charley

 

[Sarastro]

If this were just a slow starter, it would be easy to blame the starter or a connection. But if the horn or other electrical components are weak, it can't be just that. I think you need to get the battery load tested. It wouldn't be the first time a new battery failed.

 

[DavidApp]

For a test run a jumper cable from the battery ground to somewhere on the block. A head bolt or the front lifting eye.

David

 

[charleyf]

Did it occur to you that during shipping somebody might have left either a key on or a light on. Which would likely kill a battery.
Charley

 

[Graham H]

As David suggests, run a temporary earth lead to the engine block.

Graham

 

[lram59]

I'd bet dollars to donuts it's a battery gone south. Do like the ideas of running a temporary ground though also. And I would suggest investing in a modern replacement starter at first opportunity. Love mine.
Larry

 

[charleyf]

. And I would suggest investing in a modern replacement starter at first opportunity. Love mine.
Larry
[/QUOTE]
Just to give a counter point regarding the original starters. I took two original good used starters in to my local electric motor repair shop and ask him to rebuild them. I gave him new brushes to replace the original ones. I came back a couple weeks later. He had inspected and cleaned them and returned the brushes to me. He said they were in great shape and I should go ahead and use them as is. That was over ten years ago. They are in my 2 TR4's and have never missed a beat.
Charley

 

[LarryK]

If they did run down the battery because of the key on, check points and condenser.

 

[Graham H]

If you are only getting a chirp out of the horns check the contact of the battery to the solenoid cable and use your multimeter to check the battery has 12 volts it may have lost a cell and is dead.

Graham

 

[RichB4493]

Battery is brand new and tested with multimeter. 12.7V+/-. Lights come on and are strong. Horn problem may be the control head contacts in the steering wheel. I took off all the ground straps and starter cables... sanded and cleaned the connections (except for the crazy one by on the engine block that I can't get a wrench on the nut side of it at the moment)

Tried the suggestions of bypassing the body ground with a jumper cable from ground to block... no change in result.

That pretty much leaves me with a dead starter. What's the best way to take it out and what should I replace it with? Hi-Torque or rebuilt or new?

Car is up on jacks for now, so I do have bottom side access.

Thanks for the advice!
Rich

 

[LarryK]

Turn headlights on, spin starter, if headlights dim or go out, starter. If headlights do not dim check ground to starter.

 

[Andrew Mace]

If you have a good rebuilder in your area, I would go that route first. My reasoning is that your starter, or possibly one just like it previous, has served pretty well for over 60 years, right? Hi-torque starters are ok, but I prefer to fix a problem rather than "applying a band-aid"!

 

[Graham H]

I found the best way to get the starter out is to remove the rear carburetor unbolt the starter and pull it out. It's a bit tricky on your own but you can do it.

Graham

 

[DougME]

. And I would suggest investing in a modern replacement starter at first opportunity. Love mine.
Larry

Just to give a counter point regarding the original starters. I took two original good used starters in to my local electric motor repair shop and ask him to rebuild them. I gave him new brushes to replace the original ones. I came back a couple weeks later. He had inspected and cleaned them and returned the brushes to me. He said they were in great shape and I should go ahead and use them as is. That was over ten years ago. They are in my 2 TR4's and have never missed a beat.
Charley
[/QUOTE]

 

[DougME]

This was my Land Rover but Lucas starter nevertheless.

 

[Sarastro]

Just to make the point--the open-circuit voltage of a battery doesn't mean anything. To be sure the battery is OK, it should be load tested. A sulfated battery often will power all the low- or medium-current equipment just fine, but won't power the starter, which can easily pull 125 amps.

If the headlights are bright, the horn is a separate problem. So, it sounds to me like a sulfated battery or a bad starter.

BTW, Harbor Fright makes a cheap load tester that is perfectly serviceable for occasional use.

 

[RichB4493]

Hi All... just an update, The local Triumph Travelers club 'garage Squad' helped me pull the starter quite easily and we had it rebuilt at San Jose Starter/Generator for $90. Installed and connected and it turned over with much more power. It now 'occasionally starts hard.. which may be a tuning/timing issue. Other good news... I removed/cleaned my fuel gauge and it now reads properly and also have light on the right instruments as I reseated/cleaned the bulb contacts. Lastly.. got the glove box mounted/screwed in.. it was just wedged in there from the PO.

My last 2 issues (important ones) are the horns/trafficator... the amber dash light flashes intermittently and the horns only sometimes work.. and sound labored. May have to pull out the whole control head out of the stator tube. Is there an other option before I pull the whole harness/head out of the tube. I'm trying to avoid making big problems out of small ones.

Rich

 

[Sarastro]

If the turn signals work OK but not the dash indicator, it's entirely possible that the flasher is simply bad. This is one of those places where it might be simplest just to try replacing it. They are cheap.

You can troubleshoot the horns pretty easily. Disconnect them, ground one terminal, and use a clip lead from the other to the battery or some good 12V point. (CARFULLY!!) If they blow with full loudness, the horns are OK and the problem is in the wiring. Dunno if your car has a horn relay, but that should be suspect. Finally, the wiring in the steering column and the horn contacts are a common source of horn problems.

I don't think you have to rip everything apart--at least until you have eliminated the easy stuff.

 

[Graham H]

I hope you don't run into the problem I had, the wiring in the stater tube was stuck solid with rust and would not come out. Fortunately, I did the rack conversion so didn't need the stater tube I hope you can pull your harness out without any problems.

Graham