TR2/3/3A Potential TR2/3 owner

[curtis]

Haven't been on this forum for a long time. Have been busy rallying a MK1 Escort Twin Cam and enjoying my Healey 100. I was also competing in a Triumph Hérald Coupé.
I'd like to come back into the Triumph fold and I'm thinking of a TR3 small mouth. I'll say straight away that I know nothing about these cars so the Forum seemed a good place to start.
I'd be looking to compete in rallyes though not as competitive as the ones I have been doing in the TwinCam.

So a few questions;
1. What would be required reading to learn the pros and cons of the TR2/3 (I already have The works Triumphs by Graham Robson)
2. How easy is it to get more performance out of the engine? And is the suspension / roadholding good in standard form.
3. I have seen a TR3 advertized here in France with a "Le Mans" head. What is that?
4. What are the weak points to look out for?

That's enough to get started !

Thanks in advance for your input

 

[TR3driver]

This is more humor, but there's a lot of truth in it as well. Not "required" but perhaps interesting/amusing.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2H2NJt34OffYmJiYmRlOTMtMzc1Yy00NTVlLWI1ZjgtYWVjYmE0YzQxODQ4

I would also suggest reading through "Kas" Kastners latest "Triumph Preparation Handbook", but it seems the website where you can download it (for a price) is not working at the moment. Maybe it will be back up soon.
https://www.kaskastner.com/
In the meantime, you can read about it (and Kas) at https://web.archive.org/web/20160317050231/https://www.kaskastner.com/

Lots of "go fast" parts available, including oversize cylinders and even a blower kit if you want to go that way. 250 bhp should be quite do-able using off-the-shelf parts (and a truckload of money). Of course, then you break other components more often I've broken several differentials (doing things I probably shouldn't have been doing) even with the later improved axle.

Stock suspension is primitive at best (most components were taken from saloons designed in the early 40s), but there is plenty of room for improvement. Just some anti-sway bars and wider wheels (with corresponding wider tires) will help a lot, IMO. FWIW, stock TR6 wheels will fit as long as you don't go overboard on tire size (I'm running 205/55 on TR6 wheels, with just a bit of minor tweaking to get more room under the rear fenders/wings). Lots of aftermarket wheels available as well.

The "Le Mans" head was an early improvement to the cylinder head casting design, originally developed for factory-supported cars running in the 1955 Le Mans race. But it was quickly superceded by later improvements that also changed the intake manifold, so it's more interesting as a bit of history than a performance enhancement. Only about 3500 production cars were fitted with it before it was superceded by the "high port" head. There were other changes made afterwards, so naturally the late TR4A head is considered the most desirable for performance. (Plus of course there are suggested modifications to improve it further.)

Rust and hidden frame damage are probably the two biggest downfalls; but to be expected from a 55+ year old car. I had a lot of trouble with the front drum brakes on the only TR3 I've owned without the later front disc brakes; but others have assured me they can be made to work well. Personally, I'll stick with the disc brakes (which IMO work extremely well with just some high quality pads installed).

 

[curtis]

Thanks for that. Some things to think about.
What was the main difference with the TR3A ? I rather like the small mouth but wonder if there are improvements that would make the TR3A more attractive.

 

[TR3driver]

Lots of little changes, but not enough to argue about, IMO. The front bumper was improved but still useless in an accident. 3As got outside handles on the doors & trunk which are kind of handy especially if you drive with the side curtains on. Later on, they got 2 brake lights instead of 1 (but I have mine modified so all 3 rear lamps act as brake lights). You can read a fairly complete list at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2H2NJt34OffZ2VJVlM3ekxfajA

 

[curtis]

Very interesting list. Thanks.

 

[curtis]

What are the pros and cons on having twin Webers ?

 

[TR3driver]

Usually works better to start a new thread with a new question; I can't believe you don't have a bunch of responses already (and I've been off the net for a few days).

Twin DCOEs have an undeniable cachet, as they were seen on lots and lots of racing TRs back in the day (and still are). Their biggest advantage is that they are almost infinitely adjustable to match different camshaft profiles and so on.

Their biggest disadvantage is that they are almost infinitely adjustable, which makes it very difficult to get just the right settings. Most folks have a hard time getting the cruise mixture right (for example) which results in wasting a lot of fuel.

They also don't handle changes like altitude very well, so for example a friend of mine had to stop twice on the way to VTR in Breckenridge Colorado to swap jets. We live near sea level, but our route to Breckenridge went through Hoosier Pass at over 11,000 feet (3500 meters) above sea level. He has since given up on the DCOEs and gone back to SUs with no reported change in "seat of the pants" power but a substantial bump in highway mpg.

They do tend to get expensive too, especially if you keep buying jets and so on to adjust the tuning. Filing down the needle for an SU is a whole lot cheaper.

 

[Jerry]

The one difference between the small mouth and TR3A that I like is the raised platform for the hinges. No chipping paint when you open the hood or trunk. Other than that, I am not sure there is anything significant as Randall says. Find the right car for you!
Jerry

 

[Geo Hahn]

The one difference between the small mouth and TR3A that I like is the raised platform for the hinges...

And even that (the hinge plinths) didn't come along until TS60000 - well into 3A production.

 

[CJD]

It sounds like you're into performance...although that's a relative term with a 60 year old car!?! If so, get the latest year you can. Over the years little issues were "shored up"...including frame weaknesses, engine improvements, better brakes, and drive train strengthening.

If you're just in it for the cruising fun, then all years are great.

With cars this old, the rule of thumb is to buy the car in the best condition you can afford...even if you plan to restore it.

 

[pdplot]

The seats were better on the later cars. Other improvements have been noted.