HVDA Toyota Tranny conversion: alternatives?

[WidespreadPanic]

so I have a good buddy who owns an Aamco transmission shop and he's eager to do this transmission conversion for me.

The HVDA conversion kit is almost $1500!?!?! Thats a lotta moolah for just an adaptor kit. I can get a Toyota tranny and have it rebuilt pretty cheap, but that $1550 pretty much kills the deal for me. Are there any alternatives out there?

 

[vagt6]

Why not a nice JType overdrive gearbox? Yes, folks around here are probably sick of me advocating the Laycock overdrives, but they aren't so bad. They also deliver a lower final drive ratio than a five speed gearbox, which makes cruising the highway more enjoyable and easier on your engine.

The Jtype also effectively gives you a six speed gearbox, with overdrive in third and fourth gear. A well-rebuilt one, properly maintained, will last for tens of thousands o miles unless you thrash the car a lot. The Laycock overdrives aren't for hi-po driving amd may not stand up to lots of autocrossing, racing, etc., IMHO.

And, of greater importance to some folks, the Laycock is ORIGINAL to the car: it's correct.

Let us know if you require more info, there's plenty of experience here with the Laycock de Normanville overdrive in TR6s. And, no matter which way you go with your gearbox decision, good luck!

 

[bobh]

I'm saving my pennys for an HVDA kit. The price seems like a lot but the guy spent his own time and money researching different transmissions, developing a bell housing and gear shift mechanism. Later he adapted a hydraulic throw out bearing. The hydraulic TO alone costs around $500. I don't object to the cost. I just need to save up for awhile. Other than the cost I haven't heard any complaints about this conversion. There was an article in Classic Motorsports last year about racing Healeys that mentioned the widspread use of these Toyota transmissions.
The other option I am aware of is the Ford Type 9 transmission. It's a little cheaper. I think Quantum Mechanics in CT sells and Installs these. I also think kodanja , another forum member has one in his TR6.

 

[WidespreadPanic]

Hey Mark,

I'm not opposed to a Laycock at all. I'll look into it.

Where in Central Va are you?

 

[PeterK]

You gotta remember that the HVDA kit is complete with new speedo cable, clutch disk, pilot bearing, hydraulic racing t/o bearing with ss hoses and fittings, shift tower casting so that you can use the stock shifter and is more than just a bellhousing adapter. For the $$, you get a lot plus you get Herman's personal support. nfi but we have two of these kits (one kit I picked up from a failed project for $800) and love the results.

 

[Brosky]

I bought my "J" type from John at Quantum nearly two years ago and I truly enjoy it every time that I drive the car. Especially on the back roads in 3rd gear, just flipping the switch in and out of overdrive. Lazy man rally gear (no clutch needed!)

Also, no one better than John Esposito at Quantum Mechanics for this type of work.

 

[macino62]

I don't get the astronomical price the the HVDA conversion. I remember a couple of years ago, the whole article on how to do it cheaply was available on the VTR website, along with the Toyota brake conversion, etc. Strangely, this article is no longer around, and these kits are being advertised. Coincidence? ...I think not.

 

[tomshobby]

I know enough about manufacturing to know that at the somewhat limited volume for these kits that HVDA is not making a killing on them. And I certainly do not begrudge them from making a profit which is the only reason for them to be in business. Hopefully enough of a profit that they will be in business for many years to come. It is good for our hobby that they are around.

 

[PeterK]

The Toyota brake conversion is basically a bolt on except for the two metric bolts from a late TR6 and tow brake line adapters. So it is an easy diy project.

But the Toyota tranny does not mate to the TR engine so an entire new aluminum bellhousing must be cast to adapt the two. Not doubting what you read but for the TR2-6 series, it's not a diy at any stretch of the imagination. So no coincidence in my book anyways.

Maybe the VTR article was for the Spit as they have an entirely different gearbox with a bolt on bellhousing?

 

[trboost]

Peter K. is correct. The kit is complete with many custom fabricated parts as well as a brand new custom cast bell housing. The price is in line with an overdrive A or J rebuilt unit or less depending on the cost of your W58 Toyota Trans. I paid $175.00 from a local yard. You can spend up to $800.00 for a fully rebuilt unit if you want.

I think the overdrive units are indeed very cool, and if you are a purist or just like the idea of having an extra gear in 3rd & 4th then go for it. There's no doubt Quantum Mech is one of the finast shops around, but your still putting a 30 year plus unit in your car that probably has had multiple rebuilds for close to two grand. You also can't ignore the reliability issues with the OD units. They are simply more complicated than a straight forward modern 5-speed. Even John Espisito is now offering a 5-sp kit. He knows OD's have a limited rebuildable life span.

As far as Herman making a killing on his HVDA, absolutly not. We have spoken at length & I can tell you how dedicated this guy is to the Triumph community. He has refused to raise the price while adding additional parts & improvements. The reason you don't see the big three offering these units is because there is no room to discount and sell them wholesale. Herman ships to Revington in England for the exact same price you & I pay, no discount. The Mcleod hydraulic TO bearing sells for over $350.00 alone.

As always, this comes down to what you want from your car. Every one of us has differant expectations for performance, appearance, durability, reliability and function. Some want the car to be as close to original as possible, others push the limits of a 30 year old sports car. There is no right or wrong here, just what is best for you and your specific car.

One last thought, I dread the day when people like Herman Van den Akker & John Esposito are no longer here for us. I don't see anyone in the wings with the knowledge & dedication these two posses. It scares me to be left to the big 3 and what they would charge for their R&R to bring products like this to market.

 

[tomshobby]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif

Well said!

 

[bobh]

"I don't get the astronomical price the the HVDA conversion."
I came up with a saying while working in Aerospace design. "everyone else's job is easy". (I hope you can sense the acrid cynicism.) Don't underestimate the skill, experience, effort money and passion invested in a good design. Also don't underestimate the price of quality components.
Check Jegs or Summit for prices on mass produced quality components. I believe you will find that Hermans kit is fairly priced. It's not inexpensive but it's fair.
If you want to do a tranny conversion on the cheap take a look at this;
https://home.comcast.net/~dbgt6/
Give it a try. If it doesn't work the first time do it again and again until you get it right. If it was easy there would be no need for a kit. If it could be done cheaply you could buy it at Wal-Mart.
Sorry if this is a little blunt.
Articles on the Toyota brake conversion are still available.
https://www.vintagetriumphregister.org/maintain/brake-conversion.shtml
I don't recall an article about adapting a transmission other than the one posted above.
BOBH

 

[piman]

Hello all,

I don't think that people who have never driven an overdrive car really appreciate how good and flexible a system it is.
Especially for overtaking, in third say from 45mph to over 100mph with just the flick of a switch, no throttle lift at all.

I suppose we ahave a fairly ready supply of second hand gearboxes over here for about say $300, in serviceable condition. Spares are easily available and generally the Overdrive unit is very reliable. I even have one on our 1275cc Morris MInor.

Alec

 

[macino62]

It's not the issue of begrudging somebody because they've designed a kit. I just prefer to do my own G2 work, designing, and fabrication. I think the kit is a great idea for those who just want a plug and play system....however, I get more satisfaction in doing it on my own. ...Heck, I just walked in from my garage after messing around on the Bridgeport, if that says anything about me.

Kudos to the manufacturer for making a well-sorted kit that increases the lifespan of our cars.

Mike

 

[macino62]

...and on that note, I do agree with the amount of effort involved in all processes. Heck, my dad wrote up a program on Mastercam that allowed us to CNC keychains that look like the Porsche 911 logo, and also of the Fuchs wheels. It was a lot of effort for just a keychain......

 

[bobh]

Mike,
I envy you. I would love to have the tools to do my own fab.
BOBH

 

[Keoke]

[ QUOTE ]
I know enough about manufacturing to know that at the somewhat limited volume for these kits that HVDA is not making a killing on them. And I certainly do not begrudge them from making a profit which is the only reason for them to be in business. Hopefully enough of a profit that they will be in business for many years to come. It is good for our hobby that they are around.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK Tom, But a Smitty five speed conversion kit used in the Big Healeys does not cost that much an really who needs a Hydraulic throw out bearing in a street car?---Keoke

 

[GuyShark]

When my transmission/clutch goes south again, I will simply replace it with the HVDA kit.

 

[trboost]

"OK Tom, But a Smitty five speed conversion kit used in the Big Healeys does not cost that much an really who needs a Hydraulic throw out bearing in a street car?---Keoke"

The owners who have yanked their tranys yearly to replace bad TO bearings or broken fork pins or worn shaft bushings. The original mechanical set up does have design faults. Again , this falls under the desires of the "street car" owners idea of what he wants to drive on the street. Some people tool around in a stocker & others in near race cars. It's the quest & expectations for improvements that drive the automotive market forward. It's also what gets new blood into an old market.

 

[martx-5]

I bought the HDVA conversion after doing a lot of dollar comparisons. I liked the idea of a fifth overdrive gear, and originally thought that the TR overdrive tranny would be the way to go, especially since it can be made to work on second, third and fouth gears, essentially turning it into a seven speed box. My original four speed needed work, so I could have done that, or traded it into Quantum and got an overdrive unit for about $2300. The other alternative was the Sierra five speed conversion costing even more at about $2800 from Dr. Marty on e-bay. Quantum wants even more for that conversion. That left the HVDA conversion at about $1600 plus the cost of a W58 Toyota. I bought that for $250. There's a reason those trannys are so cheap...supply and demand. They don't go bad. They will handle over 200 horsepower. I don't intend to poke that much power from my TR3, but I will be upping it some, and not having to worry about tranny problems because of the weaknesses of the original is a plus as TRBOOST points out.

The other cost considerations involve the fact that Herman supplies the clutch driven disk and the throw out bearing. Moss sells those two items for about $130...money that you won't have to lay out. Let's face it, if you're pulling the tranny, you're gonna replace those items.

So, after all is said and done, I'll wind up with a modern five speed for less money then a TR w/overdrive and all of it's short comings and problems. The beauty of this conversion, is that it is totally reversible if you so desire.

I'm doing a lot of resto-mods to the TR3. Rack and pinion steering, the HDVA tranny, and the Toyota 4-pot calipers. Why not. All those items needed work, so why not upgrade. Will it be a TR3 after all of this is done?? Not exactly, but it will make it more enjoyable for me. When I'm gone, and you want to put it back to original, I've got all of the original parts, and all you have to do is unbolt the mods and stuff in the old parts...after you get them refurbished. In the meantime, I'll enjoy what I'm doing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thirsty.gif

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