Front Brake pads

[Bret]

Hey Gang,

Ok I just had a mechanic friend of mine do a road test of my B and said that my right front brakes where locking up under heavy braking. Putting the car up on the rack he complimented me on the upgrades I’ve done – Cross drilled rotors, upgraded semi metallic pads and stainless steel braided Teflon brake lines. But the bad news is that he said it’s time to replace my tired old brake fluid and it’s time to replace my rear brake shoes and scuffing up the inside of drums. In other words I’ve got way too much front ballast – thus the front lock-up. But he also recommended that while I had the car up in the air that I scuff up the front rotors and while my pads look fine he suggested I invest in some more upgraded pads.

So the question is what do you think is the best pads for my application.
Green Stuff pads?
Hawk pads?
V8 pads?

While I won’t be running that much power than stock, I want to be able to dive deeper into the corners and not have to worry about brake fade. Please vote & give me your thoughts?

 

[Steve_S]

I have no experience with the brake setup you have on your car. But I do have experience with Green Stuff front pads. I currently have them on my GT. I installed the pads last year and have done all kinds of driving on them from city traffic to hard canyon runs to ultra-steep downhill runs. Here is how I would compare them to stock pads...

Green stuff...

Require more pedal effort to stop in the same distance as stock pads.

Not as grippy when cold as stock pads.

Are not significantly different in wet conditions than stock pads.

Offer superbe braking and controlability when hot.

Have far less fade when hot than stock pads.

Create less brake dust than stock pads.

Now, all that said, I am switching back to stock pads this week. There are only two times I actually prefer Green Stuff EBC pads over stock. One is when I wash the car because there is less brake dust. The other is on the rare occasion I get the brakes REALLY hot. The Green Stuff pads outperform stock pads in this situation and really do feel good.

But for daily driving the stock pads have better stopping ability since brake temperatures are typically on the cool side and the Green Stuff need to be heated up quite a bit.

It's also worth noting that I have an annoying squeek coming from the front brakes while driving down the street. It's been there for 2,000 miles and I can't take it anymore, which is one reason of many I'm switching back to stock.

The last thing I would mention is that without a brake bias valve or uprated rear brakes, you are always going to have an imbalance in a braking system like yours. This could cause you grief if you go into a corner too hot and have to use the brakes. Uncontrolled spins are the pits! I would look into uprating the rear braking power rather than installing a bias valve since the valve would essentially reduce front brake power which wastes all that money you put into increasing it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Bret]

Good catch Steve, we’re obviously on the same wavelength. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Unless I go with a dynamic (on the fly - real time) ballast adjustments, I'm trying to avoid installing a static ballast valve. However unless I upgrade from drums to rear disks, the only upgraded rear brake shoes I’ve found are offered by VB.

 

[Steve_S]

I've heard of people looking into larger rear drums but I don't know what ever came of it. That could be a solution for you but unfortunately without a major car company R&D department behind the project it may take quite a bit of trial and error before the proper ratio and component setup is discovered. But I would imagine a 1-2" larger drum and similar pad specification to the front brakes would be pretty good. Maybe the way to go is one of those rear disc conversion kits and a bias valve for final minor trim adjustment. Good luck!

 

[GregW]

A couple months ago Dave Russell posted this about re-lining his shoes. Might be of interest as a first step. New brake lining

 

[Bret]

Well the first order of business I guess would be to flush the brake fluid and replace the rear shoes. Next I figure I’ll replace the front pads with a set of new pads. While I’ve heard good things about the Green Stuff pads I’m still thinking the Hawk pads might be the solution for me as they seem to be right in between Stock and the Green stuff.

Anybody got any thoughts on flushing the entire brake system?

 

[Steve_S]

Just did that to my TC. Just bleed to the extreme, man! Bleed the caliper farthest from the MC until you've emptied all the old fluid and new fluid comes out. Just don't completely evacuate the resevoir! Once that's done, do the other three working your way to the closest caliper to the MC. This method beats emptying the thing out and having to bleed all the air out again.

 

[DrEntropy]

Bret, GreenStuff pads are great for a competition application, Hawk for street app's. You're describing a driving style to warrant Greenies on the street 50% of the time! I don't mind the added pedal effort req'd and appreciate the reduced dust factor. I guess I'm late in that response, huh?

 

[Rob_Edwards]

RE: bleeding -- Do as Steve says and bleed, bleed, bleed! It helps to take a turkey baster and suck the old fluid out of the MC reservoir first and fill it with clean fluid, so that you don't waste time pumping all that old dirty fluid through the system. Also keep in mind that due to the brake line routing, the wheel farthest from the MC would be the left rear (because the piping goes across the engine bay to the right side of the car, back to the rear axle, then across the rear axle to the left wheel).

HTH!